Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Aside from the obvious issue of compliance, Israelis are actually a leading supplier of military tech to the US industrial complex. They got plenty of stuff we really don't want in Russian/Chinese hands.
Aside from the obvious issue of compliance, Israelis are actually a leading supplier of military tech to the US industrial complex. They got plenty of stuff we really don't want in Russian/Chinese hands.
Good thing people with this perspective aren’t in any position to influence these matters. Wow.
What do you think drives the US-Israel relationship?
Joe Biden has said he is "optimistic" that a Gaza ceasefire deal can be reached.
"We are closer than we’ve ever been," the US president said following the latest round of talks, adding he was sending his secretary of state to Israel to continue the "intensive efforts to conclude this agreement".
Amid concerns that Iran may launch an attack on Israel for the assassination of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran, Mr Biden said "no-one in the region should take actions to undermine this process".
Hamas has expressed scepticism about the chances of a deal. And without mentioning the possibility of a ceasefire, Israel said it "appreciates the efforts of the US and the mediators to dissuade Hamas from its refusal to a hostage release deal".
In a recent joint statement, the US, Qatar and Egypt stated that they had presented a proposal for a ceasefire and hostage release deal that "narrows the gaps" between Israel and Hamas.
There are a lot of reasons, mostly military and national security related. Our values and interests are highly aligned and they are basically the only country in the region we can trust. The US stores billions of dollars worth of military supplies in Israel and we have a long history of collaboration on cutting edge military tech. Start collaborating with China, Russia or Iran and see where that gets you lol. I’m sure an entire book could be written to explain why the US and Israel have been allies for almost 8 decades now. There’s also the jewish space lasers that control people’s minds.
After the quoted parts, the article mentions that Hamas thinks the US is just trying to buy time and they (Hamas) want Iran to attack Israel and for a regional war to break out.
After the quoted parts, the article mentions that Hamas thinks the US is just trying to buy time and they (Hamas) want Iran to attack Israel and for a regional war to break out.
right, a ceasefire seems farther away than ever. Hamas didnt even showing up to these talks. probably a good decision since the US Empire assassinated their negotiator.
Biden is just telling more Trumpesque lies.
Incidentally, that article is complete trash and an example of why no one should read mainstream media. No where does it say clearly who attended or even mention that Hamas did not attend.
this ofc was my favorite part and takes the cake:
that sucks. Sinwar bad ofc. hardline. unreasonable.
and yet 2 paragraphs later:
the article says they literally compromised on arguably their most important position.
After the quoted parts, the article mentions that Hamas thinks the US is just trying to buy time and they (Hamas) want Iran to attack Israel and for a regional war to break out.
I'm not over hopeful - even if something gets agreed there will be plenty of opportunity to say it failed. I dont think netayahu or sinwar want a ceasefire. They both want escalation.
but have to keep trying.
right, a ceasefire seems farther away than ever. Hamas didnt even showing up to these talks. probably a good decision since the US Empire assassinated their negotiator.
Biden is just telling more Trumpesque lies.
Incidentally, that article is complete trash and an example of why no one should read mainstream media. No where does it say clearly who attended or even mention that Hamas did not attend.
this ofc was my favorite part and takes the cake:
that sucks. Sinwar bad ofc. hardline. unre
Agree and I was also gonna say BBC is pure trash but didn’t want to get too contentious.
right, a ceasefire seems farther away than ever. Hamas didnt even showing up to these talks. probably a good decision since the US Empire assassinated their negotiator.
Biden is just telling more Trumpesque lies.
Incidentally, that article is complete trash and an example of why no one should read mainstream media. No where does it say clearly who attended or even mention that Hamas did not attend.
this ofc was my favorite part and takes the cake:
that sucks. Sinwar bad ofc. hardline. unre
So your argument is the media is lying, yet when they say the one thing that fits your preferred narrative, you accept it at face value? Interesting. I agree with you when western media indicates either side is compromising it is most likely lies, but this includes the highlighted also.
You dont get to have it both ways. You dont get to say the western media always lies, and then when they occasionally say something that maps onto your worldview, you declare now they are telling the truth.
BBC pure trash so lets try the grauniad
Both Israel and Hamas’s leaders believe there is more to gain by fighting on
...
But Netanyahu is in no hurry to do a deal. One factor may be the prospect of the collapse of his ruling coalition as rightwingers adamantly opposed to concessions peel away. This would leave the veteran politician potentially facing prison if continuing corruption trials end badly for him.
Another may be Israeli public opinion. Polls show Netanyahu remains deeply unpopular and a substantial proportion of Israelis favour a deal to bring back the hostages. But the ratings of Netanyahu’s Likud party have ticked up again in recent weeks. If Israel managed to kill Yahya Sinwar, the architect of the 7 October attacks, the political and legal prospects of the prime minister would brighten.
Sinwar does not appear to want a deal either. His 40-year career within Islamist militancy has been marked by unremitting dedication to the eventual destruction of Israel and much brutal violence.
Now believed to be hiding in a tunnel under Gaza, Sinwar was held for 23 years in Israeli prisons before being released in 2011 in a prisoner exchange. According to one Israeli former interrogator who worked at the institution where Sinwar was held, the 61-year-old is “1,000% committed and 1,000% violent – a very, very hard man”.
This month, Sinwar was picked to succeed Haniyeh, a relative pragmatist, at the head of Hamas. The choice consolidated the authority of the most intransigent of senior officials of the fractured organisation and one close to Tehran. Few observers think this improves the chances of a ceasefire deal.
Sinwar now appears to believe that Hamas is in a strong position in negotiations, with civilian suffering in Gaza increasing international pressure on Israel and so potentially forcing further concessions.
Regardless, at this point Hamas most important sticking point is going to Arabs gaining control of Rafah border. As long as someone Arab controls the border, they can be easily bribed and the smuggling tunnels will be re-opened. And Hamas can rearm smuggling through the border. This is the most important point in deciding the future of Gaza (armed war camp or potential peaceful society) and neither side seems particularly inclined to negotiate on this point.
BBC pure trash so lets try the grauniad
Sinwar agreed to the American proposal from June so he wants a real ceasefire. Bibi and the Israeli leaders and much of their Army and country want to get the hostages back and then continue mowing the lawn and stealing land.
Guardian ofc is trash too. none of this stuff is hard to find. Hamas literally broadcast it. Western media would rather abet in a plausible genocide than report literal facts.
Sinwar agreed to the American proposal from June so he wants a real ceasefire. Bibi and the Israeli leaders and much of their Army and country want to get the hostages back and then continue mowing the lawn and stealing land.
Guardian ofc is trash too. none of this stuff is hard to find. Hamas literally broadcast it. Western media would rather abet in a plausible genocide than report literal facts.
Hamas should just let the hostages go.
Originally Posted by chezlaw
Hamas should just let the hostages go.
They killed them already
This is why they refuse to publicly comment on the state of the hostages, and they want to slow roll the release of the hostages.
If/when Israel leaves, Hamas is guaranteed to pretty much immediately break whatever terms they agreed too; and just gamble that world and Israeli public sentiment will be enough to pressure Israel not to resume hostilities.
Originally Posted by chezlaw
Hamas should just let the hostages go.
They killed them already
This is why they refuse to publicly comment on the state of the hostages, and they want to slow roll the release of the hostages.
If/when Israel leaves, Hamas is guaranteed to pretty much immediately break whatever terms they agreed too; and just gamble that world and Israeli public sentiment will be enough to pressure Israel not to resume hostilities.
bro wut? they publicly comment on them all the time. they even admitted that a rogue guard murdered one.
They should.
I dont know if they are catagorised as hostages but no-one should be held without due process.
Israel has actually released a lot of POWs/"hostages," that were determined not to have engaged directly in hostilities. In fact, the whole "prison rape" storyline (most of which is probably made up) comes from testimony from said released persons.
Hamas, on the other hand, is still holding small children hostage (assuming they haven't murdered them yet) and has been for 300+ days.
