Moderation Questions

Do you remember him being naked as well? Maybe there was some sort of collective psychosis.

That I don't recall but I do feel like the initial reports had it happening really late. I tried to Google but couldn't find anything.

Shocker

I know you’re a GenXer because GenXers are so entitled that they feel entitled to their own facts. I suspect it’s the same for Dunyain.

Half-joking, half-serious on that one.

The guy who drowned was a former chef who hasn’t worked for the Obama in years. And didn’t himself live in Martha’s Vineyard. And we have no idea what he was even doing there.

An autopsy was performed, but the results were never made available to the public and media requests to see it were denied.

We have no clue who the witnesses are or any ability to ascertain the veracity of their so called claims of what happened.

For such a high profile event, there is a pretty big black box hole of verifiable information to what happened. That seems very intentional. If that doesn’t set any alarm bells off to you then I don’t know what to say.

Why does anyone go to Martha's Vineyard?

Also, "hasn't worked for the Obama for years" and "high profile event" is quite the combination.

I really didn't appreciate how far gone you were on the conspiracy stuff. Martha's Vineyard is a popular summer vacation spot. During the summer, probably no more than 10-20% of the people on the island are full time residents, and probably less than 40% are even part time residents.

Your belief that that it is suspicious that the autopsy reports was not made public is complete conspiracy horseshit. I just checked, and autopsy reports are not public records in Massachusetts.

Edgartown is by far the biggest town in MV. Most of the houses are near there. It isn't some obscure place where only the Obamas were.

That's all very well, but the black guy still did it.

Seriously. I know a ****ton of people who have been there at one time or another.

I don't even agree it was a 'high profile' event. Some guy who worked for Obama at some point.

addendum: sorry, slow pony

Now the guy didn’t even work for Obama? The articles I saw indicated the Obamas hired him as their personal chef after leaving the White House.

hE kNeW tOo MuCh

Kel, can you tell us your views on the pedo pizza joint?

Im with you that its much more likely foul play of some sort than anything else but every mainstream source that I read reported that the guy was still working for the Obamas. I am not sure how you get the facts wrong so often.

The null hypothesis is that the guy died in a paddleboarding accident as was reported by an eyewitness immediately after it happened, with cooperation from multiple branches of the government culminating in the recovery of his body and an autopsy that indicated no foul play. So if that’s the null hypothesis, what percentage chance would you put on that hypothesis versus the alternate hypothesis that it was foul play, and what additional evidence does the foul play explain that the null hypothesis can’t?

To be clear, it’s the simpler hypothesis because it doesn’t involve an elaborate coverup on the part of many credible outlets, agencies that have no association to Obama, and someone conducting an autopsy with no connection to either group?

I’m not sure what evidence is being appealed to here that makes such a far-fetched hypothesis more likely than the null hypothesis, other than just an extreme bias towards thinking that any accidental or untimely death tangentially involving a powerful person is suspicious. And even if you thought that was true, the evidence surrounding this death being exactly as it was reported just doesn’t seem even a bit compelling. So far each piece of evidence that supposedly should make you suspicious hasn’t even been substantiated at all, so I’m curious to see what evidence is being appealed to.

remember vaguely hearing versions of this at the poker tables and dismissed out of hand after falling for what were some of the earliest spam mails i ever received - ones detailing all the people who were "close to the clintons that died mysteriously"

but i gotta say after digging into it a little it feels kinda dumb

he couldn't swim
he wasn't wearing a lifejacket
he was 100 feet off shore in 8 feet of water, in a body of water with an average depth of 3-4 feet
he went under at 7:46 - the sunset was at 8:19 - so it's already getting somewhat dark - not dangerous yet, he had a good 45 minutes of being able to see reasonably well

but... it is very odd for someone who didn't know how to swim to go on such an unbalanced thing so close to dark straying so far from shore and so far from his paddleboarding partner

it is pretty suspicious - not necessarily murder - but you'd be hard pressed to think that everything was hunky dory

he was there to visit the obamas but they were not there that day (seems perfectly reasonable - from people i know who live adjacent to that lifestyle, having guests stay for weeks while the hosts themselves regularly dip out for a few days is pretty normal - and on a day they are gone is a day he's more likely to go out and do stuff)

my guess is he was drinking and that led to some unsafe choices

I suspect he overcooked the beef at an important dinner

Again, someone trying to represent that the conspiracy is more likely to be true completely making stuff up.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna962...

Apparently both being able to swim and not being able to swim are evidence that the death was suspicious.

Can you clarify what motivation the police would have to cover up a murder for Obama? To the point where the police confirmed with the public that Obama and his family were elsewhere at the time?

Speculating that he had been drinking or ate one too many dummies is whatever. Who knows. Maybe. Intoxication isn't uncommon in accidental drownings. The scenario you are positing is approximately 1 million times more likely than the right wing fever dream that Kelhus believes is the most likely scenario.

I didn't understand rick to be speculating that a murder occurred.

i wasn't trying to get behind a conspiracy theory - just saying as someone who lived on ocean in new england, going out paddleboarding without a lifejacket at night is usually the sign of an expert or someone who's really getting into vacation mode

5 min of googling found scant info on the case, so i went to gpt and asked summaries

average depth of that pond is 3ft and it was not connected to the ocean during that time so wouldn't have been impacted by tides

he fell in at an area of around 8 ft

it struck me as odd that someone who was sober wouldn't be able to swim 100 feet to shore, cling onto the board, or just recognize they could see bottom for most of the time and just back to where the depth was shallow as the average depth for that body of water is 3ft

i asked gpt to summarize a few things - asking what time the sun set, whether tides or currents could be in play, whether he was wearing a pfd, etc

when i asked whether or not he could swim it gave this

sounds to me like he didn't take the basic precautions for someone who was still very much a beginner at swimming and it went very poorly - but you absolutely need to account for inebriation of some sort to be a factor both in poor judgement and in his inability to survive

yes he was 100 feet from shore, but pretty unbelievable he wouldn't be able to swim a few feet to his board and just hold on

every time in maine we have a situation like this it's usually an elderly person or someone who was drunk and generally in an area with strong currents

he drowned in probably one of the most difficult possible scenarios to drown - utterly tranquil water with his board just a few feet away and probably could have gotten to where was water was standard depth of 3 feet after swimming 10 or so yards

again, not saying there's a conspiracy here but this is no normal accident and clearly involves drugs and/or alcohol - something which would be downplayed for obvious reasons - hence why it would look so suspicious as if it were a cover up - especially since the witness is incredibly vague and anonymous

If you think the guy drowned because he was drunk/on drugs, is that something in the public interest to know? It’s certainly consistent with the official story, which is accidental drowning.

Who knows. He also could have had some sort of medical event. If he had a seizure, for example, I don't even know if that would show up on an autopsy.

Or he could have have been murdered by a killer hired by the Obamas while paddleboarding nude at 2 am after a wild sex party with the Obamas. Who can say, really.

again, not once have i said anything conspiracy related - just saying that there's a lot of shady stuff going on