The Impending Death of Modern Capitalism
Let's make sure we're all on the same page on the definition of capitalism.
It's basically a system in which private ownership of everything prevails. It's a system which provides rewards to the people who meet the marketplace desires of consumer.
I will define "modern" as the system of the last half century when the dominant generation (Boomers) of the dominant nation (USA) entered the workforce and decided they no longer wanted to pay taxes leading to the 49 state blowout win for Ronald Reagan in 1984 and the Democratic Party takeover by neoliberals like the Clintons (and later Obama) whose economic policies were effectively equivalent to 80's Republicans. It's a system which doesn't have a balance of power between labor and capital.
Before I go on, let me say that I don't consider myself an ideologue. More like a carpenter who has to choose which tool to use in order to complete a task. Capitalism is a tool and I want to give that tool a great deal of credit for many of the historical advances in human civilization. I foresee a future in which some elements of capitalism are retained. I believe the people who have the scarce skills and willingness to contribute what is necessary to maintain a flourishing civilization should be well rewarded for their contribution. Positive reinforcement will always be a good idea.
Capital has a gravitational force. It is invested where it yields the greatest risk adjusted return and it has purchased the American government outputs. The mission embedded in the Preamble to the US Constitution of maintaining domestic tranquility is obviously not being realized. We are a polarized nation of people who have aggregated into tribal affiliations full of cognitive dissonance.
Societies fail when too many of their citizens fail.
The cracks in the system are morphing into giant crevasses. The private insurance market which backstops the US mortgage market and property values is disintegrating due to both increasing extreme weather and inflation in the cost of building replacements. In states like Florida and California, the insurance industry is migrating to socialist state administered insurance. The physical health of our citizens is deteriorating as well. We're increasingly obese, contaminated with environmental toxins like plastic and our sex hormones are rapidly declining.
The problem with capitalism is that literally anything which makes money is considered virtuous. There is no desire which is considered negative.
The problem we run into is when there is a conflict between what we desire and what we need.
We need food, water and shelter from dangerous environmental factors.
There is no incentive under modern capitalism for the selfish players to contribute to the protection of our shared environment. So we see the rise in environmental poisons such as greenhouse gases, plastics, PFAS, metals growing without regulation.
Democracy in the US is effectively already gone. We are effectively living under feudalism with a group of actors / performers in both major parties offering no substantive difference in economic policy.
Socialism is going to emerge because it must in order for us to survive as a species. It may be an authoritarian and dictatorial socialism like the Nazis or it may be a democratic socialism as espoused by FDR and the pre-Boomer Democratic Party.
Any species whose population grows unchecked is destined to drown in its own toxins. A system which depends on perpetual growth on a finite Earth is programmed to eventually exceed its limits. Survival does not accrete to the strongest. Survival accretes to those most adaptable.
Adaptation is coming. The cliffhanger is whether the adaptation will be timely enough for us to continue the human experiment. In 4 billions years of life on Earth, money has only existed for 1 millionth of that time and our attachment to it is becoming fatal. It's time to let go of money as the basis for human hierarchy. A reliable food supply and the ability to reproduce should be at the top of our list.
Let's make sure we're all on the same page on the definition of capitalism.
It's basically a system in which private ownership of everything prevails...
Wrong...
Capitalism is a economic system by where Private ownership is allowed to operate in a 'free market' economy with economic competition and monopolistic tendencies are discouraged.
Wrong...
Capitalism is a economic system by where Private ownership is allowed to operate in a 'free market' economy with economic competition and monopolistic tendencies are discouraged.
Can you provide a dictionary link to your definition ?
Websters gives me the following definition ....
an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
It's interesting that you completely ignore the fatal aspects of unregulated capitalism which I opined about in the OP. In a capitalism system, who is responsible for clean drinking water ?
Okay, grandpa. Let's get you back to bed.
Let's make sure we're all on the same page on the definition of capitalism.
It's basically a system in which private ownership of everything prevails. It's a system which provides rewards to the people who meet the marketplace desires of consumer.
I will define "modern" as the system of the last half century when the dominant generation (Boomers) of the dominant nation (USA) entered the workforce and decided they no longer wanted to pay taxes leading to the 49 state blowout win for Ronald Reagan
Sounds like you've got some alternative suggestions on what to do instead of regurgitated anti cap slogans?
China pays about 15% the wages of the United states with far worse working conditions and detriment to the environment for reasons that we fully understand - and correctly disagree with.
By allowing private ownership of businesses and encouraging competition, capitalism drives companies to improve products, reduce costs, and deliver better services to consumers. This competitive environment creates technological advancements and economic growth, which in turn create jobs and improve living standards.
But also, capitalism aligns with human nature's desire for choice and autonomy. In capitalist systems, consumers have the freedom to decide what goods and services they want to purchase, while entrepreneurs have the liberty to create businesses that meet those demands. This dynamic exchange between supply and demand leads to a more responsive and adaptive economy and just an overall more effective economy.
It's the govts role, for example, to place carbon emissions but your clean energy and green investment funds that are channeling resources into climate-tech startups are the ones creating the potential advancements in sustainable solutions for use around the world.
I mean, one of your lines is that we need food and water and the other is that we are fatties.
Could you give some specific examples or start in a specific area and go from there? The this a very broad and complex topic
GL OP... you're asking people to have a paradigm shift, when they are squarely caught in the matrix. Probably not going to happen.
But I applaud the efforts.
Are you familiar with Plato's views on the cycle of politics from the Republic?
This is kind of a simplistic 3 min crash course that Andrew Sullivan made 8 years ago.
Is that your defense mechanism against uncomfortable truth against which you have no substantive argument ?
Name calling .... LOL.
The uncomfortable truth is that the people you think socialism needs to save would have no chance whatsoever in the event this devolves into violence.
Most people in this country are doing alright. A relatively small, but very vocal minority are complaining about their inability to navigate life and are acting like the United States is 10 minutes away from collapse.
People have food, water, and shelter. People that can't afford those things are able to get them rather easily from the government for the low, low price of not being on drugs and being willing to fill out a form.
If you are on drugs or refuse to fill out paperwork, then you might not be willing to let those people die in a gutter somewhere, but other people are. You cannot help people who do not wish to help themselves. The species will not go extinct if the bottom X% dies to global cooling or some exotic disease that escapes from a lab in Asia.
The poor in America are objectively better off than they've ever been in the history of the nation. They're fat, warm, and have the entirety of human knowledge in their pocket at all times. If they'd just stop popping out babies they don't want to raise with partners who won't pretend to help, or at least get those kids on a school bus if they do decide to have them, it'll all work out just fine.
Elon's plan of everyone having 15 babies has less to do with needing those extra mouths to feed and more with having as many pulls at the genetic slot machine as possible. He wants more Einsteins, and that's just a numbers game.
No one. Either the market provides it because it sees a way to make profit, or people band together to provide it communally. But no one has the responsibility.
Same in a socialist system unless there is an explicit constitutional right to "clean water".
They don't understand the orthogonality of capital ownership , and goals "in society". You could have a fully socialist country that gives absolutely 0 **** to any environmental concern
GL OP... you're asking people to have a paradigm shift, when they are squarely caught in the matrix. Probably not going to happen.
But I applaud the efforts.
Are you familiar with Plato's views on the cycle of politics from the Republic?
I am not "asking" people to do anything.
I am sharing a perspective about a perceived inevitability. The dominoes are already in motion. I'm inviting people to a conversation.
As the current paradigm fractures, I want to encourage people to consider alternatives to fight or flight responses and prepare themselves for currently unthinkable options which might pave the way for a more graceful transition.
Historical precedent and current events suggest that World War 3 has commenced. Russia has invaded Ukraine. Israel is doing what's it doing to expand it's territory and security. The US leader is making noise about annexing Greenland, Canada and the Panama Canal .... for starters. We have proto-Nazi behavior emerging.
At the bottom of all of this legitimate fear. Homelessness increased by 18% in the US last year. Luigi Mangione is accused of killed a health care exec and has quite a popular following as a result.
Fear response involves sorting into surviving and non-surviving subgroups. Americans who support Trump are simultaneously freaked out about our border integrity while supporting his wish to disrespect the border integrity of Canada and Greenland. That's cognitive dissonance.
There is a system available to us in which we orbit around what is beneficial to the species as a whole instead of what is only beneficial to privileged members while providing each member what they need. We have the wherewithal to guarantee every citizen food, shelter, preventative medical care, functional medicare care like eyeglasses, dental care and hearing aids. Education and transportation.
We have the theoretical ability to remove the fear of having enough.
I don't have any expectation that this will come to pass. At least not without significant withdrawal symptoms which might involve a more widespread world war.
But it's important that some people begin to share the alternatives and lay out the groundwork for how we begin to recover.
I think it's clear to all involved that a paradigm shift is well under way.
Trump is the avatar for a nation full of angry, bitter, selfish, ignorant and frightened people just as Hitler was for starving Germans.
He ran to the LEFT of Hillary Clinton on NAFTA. He is claiming to take action to dismantle global capitalism by administering tariffs on countries which have cheaper labor and more cost efficient manufacturing.
He is representing himself as the person who is going to protect Americans from global capitalism and global free markets .... just as EU countries have been doing for much longer.
I can certainly see some wisdom in national self-sufficiency. Dependency on foreign supply chains is a national security risk.
There would have been no appetite for someone like Trump in the 50's when America's economy was booming and everyone, including school teachers, could afford to buy a home and have a stay at home spouse raising the kids.
Same in a socialist system unless there is an explicit constitutional right to "clean water".
They don't understand the orthogonality of capital ownership , and goals "in society". You could have a fully socialist country that gives absolutely 0 **** to any environmental concern
Well .... as a person who is familiar with human metabolism ..... water, food and oxygen and reproductive capacity are fundamental to our survival as is the limitation of factors which interfere with our basic metabolism. Any society which doesn't make the continuity of necessities like those a TOP priority is ignorant of its own needs.
Do you have any objection to those being top priorities ? Are you making a spurious argument for the purpose of being difficult ?
Bernie's got the answer.
Well .... as a person who is familiar with human metabolism ..... water, food and oxygen and reproductive capacity are fundamental to our survival as is the limitation of factors which interfere with our basic metabolism. Any society which doesn't make the continuity of necessities like those a TOP priority is ignorant of its own needs.
Do you have any objection to those being top priorities ? Are you making a spurious argument for the purpose of being difficult ?
I have an objection to "priorities" existing in the sense you mean it, i have an objection with the entire model of society and existence you described since you joined this forum.
It would be a lot better for every single human being including me and my family to die than for humanity to be led by people like you. Your ideas are a lot worse than death.
I have an objection to "priorities" existing in the sense you mean it, i have an objection with the entire model of society and existence you described since you joined this forum.
It would be a lot better for every single human being including me and my family to die than for humanity to be led by people like you. Your ideas are a lot worse than death.
I appreciate your honesty Luciom and your willingness to choose death for our species.
That's the essence of our disagreement. Your narcissism is boundless. You don't hesitate to represent yourself as a God willing to condemn life on Earth for eternity in order to maintain a standard of living in your lifetime.
I must say ..... I can't comprehend what an existence in a monstrous mind such as yours must be like. A willingness to declare that our species very existence is subordinate to your personal preference.
The bitterness just oozes from your words. I suspect that you your ability to comprehend someone like me is equally difficult. Someone who experiences joy just at the ability to breathe and feels a sense of interconnection with everything and doesn't live a life which orbits around what they consume must be freaky to you.
You are truly a dark hearted person. Or a chat bot constructed by a dark hearted person.
I'm curious Luciom.
How does it feel to be truly understood ? To be able to express your depth and have it known that you are willing to end the life of our species in order to preserve your liberty to pollute ?
I'm curious about your conversations with young people and any children that you might have. Are they in the Death Cult with you ?
You remind me of the Jonestown massacre when a narcissistic leader ordered 900 people to kill themselves with cyanide rather than submit to a world in which he was not their master. That's you dude.
I appreciate your honesty Luciom and your willingness to choose death for our species.
That's the essence of our disagreement. Your narcissism is boundless. You don't hesitate to represent yourself as a God willing to condemn life on Earth for eternity in order to maintain a standard of living in your lifetime.
I must say ..... I can't comprehend what an existence in a monstrous mind such as yours must be like. A willingness to declare that our species very existence is subordinate to your perso
Sorry i can't go on about what i would like politics to be, and what should be legal, without being banned. Have fun intellectually masturbating with other marxists
Sorry i can't go on about what i would like politics to be, and what should be legal, without being banned. Have fun intellectually masturbating with other marxists
You've gone far enough Luciom. You support a lifestyle which by design leads to human extinction and you are perfectly willing to have that outcome land in the laps of others. You acknowledge your sadism without any mask.
I'm curious about your choice of the name Luciom. Is that related to Lucifer ? Are you embracing a monstrous identity ?
To be honest ..... I appreciate your willingness to be frank and reveal what lurks under the hood. In Freudian terms, you are revealing your predatory id. The check and balance of a superego appears to be completely absent. Your affinity for the continuity of your species is like a lion's affinity for the continuity of a zebra. It doesn't exist.
I grasp what it's like to abhor oneself so much that you want to take it out on the world at large. Deep down, you know there's something missing when you see people who love each other and you grasp that you don't have that in you. It's a feeling that makes people want to destroy everything and take their revenge out on the world. My mother was like that. Donald Trump is like that.
It's a sad deal. To get one life to live and be stuck with a loveless personality. That's the root of bitterness. You treat the world the way you feel about yourself.
I'm curious Luciom.
How does it feel to be truly understood ? To be able to express your depth and have it known that you are willing to end the life of our species in order to preserve your liberty to pollute ?
I'm curious about your conversations with young people and any children that you might have. Are they in the Death Cult with you ?
You remind me of the Jonestown massacre when a narcissistic leader ordered 900 people to kill themselves with cyanide rather than submit to a world in which
Paging Microbet, Jal, Karl, Hue...
Would anyone be willing to explain some alternative ideas that could be useful in either improving the lives of the bottom 99% of people, tackling environmental issues, or really anything of substance in relation to improving our economic situation, or really anything at all?
Because this will end up just going down as another shitshow of chronic partisan horseshit for the 100th time - usually from previously banned accounts.
..I'd venture a guess that such a strong appetite for another economic system would come after the thoughts and ideas of something better?
