The Impending Death of Modern Capitalism
Let's make sure we're all on the same page on the definition of capitalism.
It's basically a system in which private ownership of everything prevails. It's a system which provides rewards to the people who meet the marketplace desires of consumer.
I will define "modern" as the system of the last half century when the dominant generation (Boomers) of the dominant nation (USA) entered the workforce and decided they no longer wanted to pay taxes leading to the 49 state blowout win for Ronald Reagan in 1984 and the Democratic Party takeover by neoliberals like the Clintons (and later Obama) whose economic policies were effectively equivalent to 80's Republicans. It's a system which doesn't have a balance of power between labor and capital.
Before I go on, let me say that I don't consider myself an ideologue. More like a carpenter who has to choose which tool to use in order to complete a task. Capitalism is a tool and I want to give that tool a great deal of credit for many of the historical advances in human civilization. I foresee a future in which some elements of capitalism are retained. I believe the people who have the scarce skills and willingness to contribute what is necessary to maintain a flourishing civilization should be well rewarded for their contribution. Positive reinforcement will always be a good idea.
Capital has a gravitational force. It is invested where it yields the greatest risk adjusted return and it has purchased the American government outputs. The mission embedded in the Preamble to the US Constitution of maintaining domestic tranquility is obviously not being realized. We are a polarized nation of people who have aggregated into tribal affiliations full of cognitive dissonance.
Societies fail when too many of their citizens fail.
The cracks in the system are morphing into giant crevasses. The private insurance market which backstops the US mortgage market and property values is disintegrating due to both increasing extreme weather and inflation in the cost of building replacements. In states like Florida and California, the insurance industry is migrating to socialist state administered insurance. The physical health of our citizens is deteriorating as well. We're increasingly obese, contaminated with environmental toxins like plastic and our sex hormones are rapidly declining.
The problem with capitalism is that literally anything which makes money is considered virtuous. There is no desire which is considered negative.
The problem we run into is when there is a conflict between what we desire and what we need.
We need food, water and shelter from dangerous environmental factors.
There is no incentive under modern capitalism for the selfish players to contribute to the protection of our shared environment. So we see the rise in environmental poisons such as greenhouse gases, plastics, PFAS, metals growing without regulation.
Democracy in the US is effectively already gone. We are effectively living under feudalism with a group of actors / performers in both major parties offering no substantive difference in economic policy.
Socialism is going to emerge because it must in order for us to survive as a species. It may be an authoritarian and dictatorial socialism like the Nazis or it may be a democratic socialism as espoused by FDR and the pre-Boomer Democratic Party.
Any species whose population grows unchecked is destined to drown in its own toxins. A system which depends on perpetual growth on a finite Earth is programmed to eventually exceed its limits. Survival does not accrete to the strongest. Survival accretes to those most adaptable.
Adaptation is coming. The cliffhanger is whether the adaptation will be timely enough for us to continue the human experiment. In 4 billions years of life on Earth, money has only existed for 1 millionth of that time and our attachment to it is becoming fatal. It's time to let go of money as the basis for human hierarchy. A reliable food supply and the ability to reproduce should be at the top of our list.
Paging Microbet, Jal, Karl, Hue...
Would anyone be willing to explain some alternative ideas that could be useful in either improving the lives of the bottom 99% of people, tackling environmental issues, or really anything of substance in relation to improving our economic situation, or really anything at all?
Because this will end up just going down as another shitshow of chronic partisan horseshit for the 100th time - usually from previously banned accounts.
..I'd venture a guess that such a stro
Let's begin with the premise that life is better than death. And if the current system is resulting in a world war of aggression and conquest (Ukraine, Gaza, Greenland, Panama Canal, Canada. etc) and the elimination of a middle class which can afford to purchase a home and the demand for a fascist dictator with zero regard for the environment .... then maybe a lower GDP situation is better for the average person.
Maybe "better" is a world in which our brains and testes are NOT loaded up on microplastic poisoning and our sperm counts aren't falling through the floor. Maybe "better" is a country which is not full of incels who want Trump to destroy the paradigm because they have no path to being able to afford a family.
Maybe "better" is one in which young people feel the government represents an interest in their future in which they hope they can survive without a dark cloud of climate change.
We have the resources to give every one of our citizens what they NEED. We have the resource to eliminate the FEAR which is propelling people to support a fascist like Trump.
We can guarantee all of our citizens adequate housing, education, food, preventative health care including dental, vision and hearing aids so that they can function and contribute.
We need an era of environmental restoration to clean up the toxins of this irresponsible and unsustainable regime. That's the work we need to do. Things are getting ugly fast with extreme weather and environmental poisoning. Spraying Round-Up all over the world is not a sustainable agricultural practice. It kills insects, pollinators and micro-organisms that are part of the interconnected web of life which we are dependent upon.
We humans live in a penthouse and we ignore the need to maintain the foundations of a stable food supply. Stopping the overturning ocean circulation because of greenhouse gas forcing is not "better". That a global apocalypse.
We don't need to hop of jets for international travel for RECREATION. We don't Fritos or Coca Cola in plastic packaging. It's poison on the inside and the outside.
We are children in need of adult supervision. We need mature adults to end the orgy of consumption which is destroying the environment we need to survive.
Some maniacs like Luciom will say that giving up Coca Cola and Fritos are a fate worse than extinction. I don't agree.
We need an FDR type figure who will tell us with conviction that there is nothing to fear except fear itself. We need to let go of our addiction to consumption of **** we don't need. We need to have a tough talk about our priorities. The orgy of consumption is a great intergenerational injustice. We consume today and future generation are stuck with the disaster. What moral system condones that ?
Capitalism survived the 1800s, a time of unchecked wars, few to no social safeguards and societies riddled with democratic revolutions.
I'll wager a guess and state that it will be able to withstand people's limited outrage, some disjointed protests and inventive ways to post "resist!" on social media while begging for followers.
Which doesn't mean capitalism doesn't come with issues, especially in deregulated societies. But there is no systematic opposition to those issues that operate with any level of efficiency. Rather it is a fragile and fractured political eco-system that exist under an illusion of cohesion when they oppose something, but fall apart completely the minute they have to agree on something.
Capitalism survived the 1800s, a time of unchecked wars, few to no social safeguards and societies riddled with democratic revolutions.
I'll wager a guess and state that it will be able to withstand people's limited outrage, some disjointed protests and inventive ways to post "resist!" on social media while begging for followers.
Which doesn't mean capitalism doesn't come with issues, especially in deregulated societies. But there is no systematic opposition to those issues that operate with an
I agree with you that leftists tend to be disorganized anarchists. It's not until the capitalists really screw things up very badly that a relative leftist like FDR becomes the alpha leader around which the public rallies.
The cracks in capitalism are revealing themselves. The capitalist property insurance system is failing as the cost of replacing damaged property is making property ownership less economically feasible. The mortgage market is dependent upon the insurability of residential real estate. The capital ratios of banks can not withstand the collapse of real estate loans on their books.
Climate change represents the mother of all bubbles. Sea levels on the SE US coast have risen ~ 6" in the last 15 years. That's an insane amount of real estate which is transitioning from perpetuity to annuity. It's going to be claimed by the ocean. The insurance actuaries grasp this and capital is in rapid flight.
World wars are socialist endeavors. Salvaging society in the face of collapse will be socialist. After we recover, I'm sure there will be some capitalism again. That might take a while.,
I agree with you that leftists tend to be disorganized anarchists. It's not until the capitalists really screw things up very badly that a relative leftist like FDR becomes the alpha leader around which the public rallies.
The cracks in capitalism are revealing themselves. The capitalist property insurance system is failing as the cost of replacing damaged property is making property ownership less economically feasible. The mortgage market is dependent upon the insurability of residential real
I would agree that you are identifying problems caused by unchecked human greed. Though while some of it was certainly allowed to build in the capitalistic world of corporations and business, it is not like all pollution happens due to such machinations. Governments, states and other ideologies of production contribute as well.
However, this doesn't really mean that capitalism is going to die. Capitalism isn't a society and it isn't government. Capitalism does not need me or you to survive, it will likely go on happily even as societies topple and governments fall.
Which I would say is good reason not to base a society on capitalism. Not that I oppose it in the way that socialists do. However, I trust it in the same way I trust a hammer: Good in some hands, bad news in others.
The problem with capitalism is that literally anything which makes money is considered virtuous. There is no desire which is considered negative.
The problem we run into is when there is a conflict between what we desire and what we need.
We need food, water and shelter from dangerous environmental factors.
There is no incentive under modern capitalism for the selfish players to contribute to the protection of our shared environment. So we see the rise in environmental poisons such as greenhouse
What you seem to be suggesting is just a pop version of the Marxist idea that capitalism inevitably yields to socialism.
Capitalism may well look very different 100 years from now (if it exists at all). But that will be because of our technology, not because of the inherent problems in a system based on human greed. The "problem" you describe has always existed within capitalism. Neverthless, the food we eat, the water we drink, and the shelters we reside in are, for most people, much safer than they were 150 years ago.
I agree with you that leftists tend to be disorganized anarchists. It's not until the capitalists really screw things up very badly that a relative leftist like FDR becomes the alpha leader around which the public rallies.
The cracks in capitalism are revealing themselves. The capitalist property insurance system is failing as the cost of replacing damaged property is making property ownership less economically feasible. The mortgage market is dependent upon the insurability of residential real
It's funny you talk insurance, where the state has a massive role, and mortgages, where... the state has a ULTRA MASSIVE role in the USA lol.
We are children in need of adult supervision. We need mature adults to end the orgy of consumption which is destroying the environment we need to survive.
What do you suggest that these adults do?
The mature adults are not going to be better equipped to dismantle the orgy of consumption under a Marxist pretense - if that's what you're even suggesting, than what we are capable of doing under the current system. But obviously, changing the system isn't going to miraculously spur any more levelheaded individuals.
A highly centralized state, encompassed with the perfect marxist utopic individual approved by Nut Nut isn't going to be able to match the effectiveness of the billions of dollars in green technologies alone that are the ones actually affording an alternative option to having to drive a big block chevy to work, or drinking polluted water. If you want to argue for stricture carbon taxes, or outright bans on the productions of plastics and what not, you could argue and effectively accomplish that as opposed to just telling folks that they cant fly internationally and hope that they all just agree. Because that's been done before.
I agree with you that leftists tend to be disorganized anarchists. It's not until the capitalists really screw things up very badly that a relative leftist like FDR becomes the alpha leader around which the public rallies.
The cracks in capitalism are revealing themselves. The capitalist property insurance system is failing as the cost of replacing damaged property is making property ownership less economically feasible. The mortgage market is dependent upon the insurability of residential real
Much of world problems today are just a result of a failed monetary system .
Once you fix it, capitalism will do a great job afterwards .
Failed/Weak (worthless) currency ->
Entire world crumbled under debts massively (easy to overextend debts to unsustainable level) .
Overconsumption
Over uses of ressources
Inflation
Mis allocation of capital (invites too much speculation and obvious non viable investment )
Increases wealth inequalities
Prevent (or extremely difficult ) unprofitable companies to go bust
Creates a weak fragile economy
Political instability
Etc.
In others word , you have examples where societies thriving with a bad monetary system ?
When empires failed it’s usually when their currency goes to $h!t.
Ps: from a bitcoiner that knows it’s value and why it is so , I’m surprised by your reaction .
Let's make sure we're all on the same page on the definition of capitalism.
It's basically a system in which private ownership of everything prevails. It's a system which provides rewards to the people who meet the marketplace desires of consumer.
I will define "modern" as the system of the last half century when the dominant generation (Boomers) of the dominant nation (USA) entered the workforce and decided they no longer wanted to pay taxes leading to the 49 state blowout win for Ronald Reagan
You're free to live off the grid as a farmer with your own meat and crops. Otherwise stop babbling. You want all of the fruits of capitalism with none of the drawbacks. Are you willing to live without electricity?
Put the your money where your mouth is or pound sand. You want Internet wifi easily accessible food with all of the modern conveniences but none of the 1800s drawbacks.
Basically you're a lazy entitled clown.
I agree with you that leftists tend to be disorganized anarchists. It's not until the capitalists really screw things up very badly that a relative leftist like FDR becomes the alpha leader around which the public rallies.
The cracks in capitalism are revealing themselves. The capitalist property insurance system is failing as the cost of replacing damaged property is making property ownership less economically feasible. The mortgage market is dependent upon the insurability of residential real
Btw FDR is an all time piece of human garbage who helped to destroy this country.
I guess free ponies for everyone is a great promise if you're gonna die in a few years..
You're not special. If you were born in the US you lucked out just like me. Nobody owes you anything..
Nobody should go work to make sure you're shelter or well fed.
Failed/Weak currency ->
Entire world crumbled under debts massively...
Overconsumption
Over uses of ressources
Inflation
Mis allocation of capital
Increases wealth inequalities
Prevent unprofitable companies to go bust
Creates a weak fragile economy
Political instability
I dont agree with that assessment... I think that is a over simplification of 'the worlds problems' and a misdirected responsibility thereof.
According to that list above, if you had said 'The worlds monetary problems' I could be onboard with that.
Btw FDR is an all time piece of human garbage who helped to destroy this country.
I guess free ponies for everyone is a great promise if you're gonna die in a few years..
You're not special. If you were born in the US you lucked out just like me. Nobody owes you anything..
Nobody should go work to make sure you're shelter or well fed.
The problem with the country of your dreams is that it isn't owed any obligations. This tends to have unfortunate consequences.
I'm a wealthy lazy entitled clown. To quote most wealthy people .... "I've got mine".
I was born on 3rd base in the easiest environment to become wealthy in human history. I'm wise enough to know that I didn't hit a triple.
Have you considered leading by example, and sponsoring a family with your wealth?
Like, I *could* absolutely buy an extra house and let some poor family live there for free. I *could* pay for their two kids to attend a private school so they escape from the hellhole that is Milwaukee Public Schools. My guess is there are other people on 2p2 in this same boat.
But I'd also like to retire some day, so I don't do those things.
My preferred method of giving back to the people is tipping 40%+ on restaurant bills and throwing an extra $20 at the barber or whatever other service employees I run into in my daily life. They're at work, and I want to support that decision to show up every day. If everyone did this, those lower end service jobs would be some of the best in the country and my water glass would probably get filled more than once.
Every single lefty makes a conscious choice when they file their taxes and skip the part where it asks you if you'd like to make a further donation to the treasury. They love dreaming up ways of spending other peoples' money, though! You included.
that invariably the worst failures in american society stem from its socialist components, not it's capitalists ones. Housing is a good example, healthcare is another.
We have the equivalent of a plastic spoon worth of plastic in our brains.
Please identify a worse failure than that ?
We have the equivalent of a plastic spoon worth of plastic in our brains.
Please identify a worse failure than that ?
And by a large margin the 2 worst offenders who throw plastic in the sea are vietnam and china worldwide, 2 communist countries.
Try again to tell me how that is "capitalism" when 2 communist countries do the bulk of it?
NutNut, If you're arguing in good faith, and I think you are because you've got three threads in the orange tier of the political spectrum, what changes would you make in the United States if you became Emperor and had all the power to do w/e. I am just curious what you think the pathway forward is - I'd imagine that you'd have an opinion on that.
Because telling folks that they don't need to travel for pleasure due to the thoughts of Nutnut probably represents .01% of the population and is pretty much straight DPRK thoughts.
I mean, you're spitting the same exact talking points from Michael Parenti like Wazz and others did but then vanish - Karl did make some good points which I appreciate so maybe you can too?
I get that this could be some eastern bot doing its thing, but brother, if you're out there with some possible concrete solutions to put to work, share those muther****ers for **** sake.
Have you considered leading by example, and sponsoring a family with your wealth?
Like, I *could* absolutely buy an extra house and let some poor family live there for free. I *could* pay for their two kids to attend a private school so they escape from the hellhole that is Milwaukee Public Schools. My guess is there are other people on 2p2 in this same boat.
But I'd also like to retire some day, so I don't do those things.
You wouldn’t need to pay that much if those business were profitable enough to pay them good wages ….
All u do is sustain unprofitable business .
But I can’t be against charity either .
I always heard throwing money at problems , especially to poor people , never fix problems and isn’t the way to go .
Glad you disagree on this ?
I dont agree with that assessment... I think that is a over simplification of 'the worlds problems' and a misdirected responsibility thereof.
According to that list above, if you had said 'The worlds monetary problems' I could be onboard with that.
Meh it’s just semantic .
Poor monetary system , regardless being national or international always bring a $h!t show eventually and u know this.
I was just simplifying to make a general point .
