GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

I thought you had Kobe at #2 all time? Is Wade #2 all time now?

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2008 JAMISON..... 2x all-star..... #14 MVP
2008 PAU.............. 1x all-star..... no MVP

Jamison was a 20k scorer that outplayed Lebron in the 07' 1st Round

Due to the same style of play and chemistry issues that Lebron has (which requires more help), Wade is inferior to Kobe.

Similar to Lebron, Wade is more ball-dominant and statistically-dominant than Kobe... But similar to Lebron, Wade lacks the nuance, intricacies and tricks of Kobe's game.

Specifically, Kobe was an expert junpshooter that could score better off screens than Wade, who was better off-screens than Lebron.. Wade's inability to play off a dominator like Shaq or Lebron is why he underachieved with both.. Otoh, Kobe's scoring diversity allowed the best fits and chemistry, thereby allowing teams to reach their capacity (3-peat), or win with less (repeat with a 2nd option that was worse than Bosh, Love and maybe even Jamison - see previous post).

Btw, I changed my rankings after the study itt was completed regarding bigs and jumpshoters being 1st option for all the great teams of the play-by-play era (dynasties or dominant title runs).. Accordingly, my top 10 consists of the best bigs and jumpshoters ever, since these skillsets were 1st option for all the best teams.. So the top 10 is a subjective mix of the best bigs and jumpshoters ever, i.e. MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Kobe, Duncan, Shaq, Curry, Jokic, Magic, Lebron... As you can see, primary ball-handlers don't appear until #11 (Magic), since they can't produce great teams as 1st option...

russell major bricklayer but doesnt matter ?
wilt massively underperform in playoffs but he get a pass while lebron doesnt.
dwade better then kobe for years, even during prime kobe ?

u claim bird magic is like lebron joining dwade yet lebron and dwade are lightyears away from bird classification ...
same for duncan....
shaq major failure in playoffs and get many passes but not lebron.

ill stop there.
all your arguments gets shattered by your top 10 lol...

But my post was about a post regarding OKC... nevermind. Get well soon.

How would anyone know your post was about OKC when this is the first time you mentioned OKC.. We ain't your mama - no one is holding your hand or trying to read your mind.. And if you were talking about OKC, their playoff level was weak compared to the "effort" fueled regular season record

Shaq reached better peak than lebron (3-peat), while Lebron failed with a Kobe-like sidekick plus Bosh and Allen.

So that takes care of your Shaq issue..

And the reason that Lebron gets knocked more than others for playoff failures is because his are the worst and he has the most failures.... For example, imagine the massive upset if OKC lost these Finals, yet Lebron lost as an OKC-level favorite twice in 09' and 10', while also having the goat choke in 2011.. He lost 5 times with homecourt, while opponents like the Nuggets, T'Wolves, Mavs and Magic had worse rosters when they upset Lebron's team.. Lebron also lost a 2-1 lead to Booker in 2021 and lost in the 1st Round with Luka or AD - 1000 players in history can win the 1st Round with Luka or AD..

And no one ever shot 35% and 5 TO's per game in a series, except Lebron in 07' and 08' Playoffs, so he played worse than anyone ever had at 22 and 23 years old... Meanwhile, many other 22 years olds dominated the exact same opponents, aka 22-year Kobe and Amare dominated the Spurs.

Regarding Wade and Lebron - relative to the comp they faced, Wade and Lebron were the same dominance as Bird/Magic by virtue of being #1 and 2 statistically from 2009 to 2011 (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48) - Lebron and Wade were the top 2 producers or dominators in the game..

However, Wade and Lebron's statistical superiority to Kobe is due to ball-dominance, so they're still worse than Kobe... The weaker chemistry of ball-dominance produces weaker teams and underachieves rosters (i.e. Wade only went 2 for 4 with Lebron, or only 1 chip with Shaq).. TLDR: everything stands.. aka the top 10 can be anyone you want EXCEPT primary ball-handlers, since they can't produce great teams as 1st option (dynasties or dominant title runs).

[QUOTE=Open-Minded Fan]

If the Heat won the 2011 Finals, it would probably be viewed like one of KD's rings.

[/Quote]

Exactly, and that's how Lebron's rings should be viewed - just like KD's.. Lebron enjoyed an advantage over the league, which required a bigger advantage to stop it (KD's).

But after the 2011 loss, people forgot that Lebron stacked the deck because 3 straight upset losses made him a sympathetic figure.. It didn't seem like deck-stacking since Lebron was such a massive loser... People forgot that he superseded the 2010 Lakers by getting a Kobe-like sidekick and a 3rd option that was better than Pau... So even though many people didn't notice, his rings were asterisks that someone had to stop by getting an even bigger advantage (KD's Warriors).. But Lebron's advantage lasted twice as long (11-16' vs 17-19').

You think it’s bad but in reality if u look at the empirical numbers it isn’t .
Yes LeBron had a better team then kobe but in 2011 kobe got swept with a championship team and LeBron won 2 games with a better team shrug ..

So kobe doesn’t suck but LeBron do ?
Lol..

Ps: but I love the fact u admit even if LeBron wins , he shouldn’t count .
So regardless what he would do , it doesn’t actually matter …..
U try find narrative but in the end , the real narrative is lebron couldn’t never do anything that wouldn’t make u not hate him .

Nah .
Getting swept 5 times in the play off like shaq with great teams (50-57-60-61-around 50 win pace in 1999) is atrocious comparse to lose in the final with bums like LeBron …..
Nah shaq had massive failure and I’m not even speaking about that piston lost with a top 10 ever in kobe vs a piston team with no top 75 players in it lol….
Terrible terrible terrible .

And the rest no either …
But keep trying .

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2008 Jamison..... 2x all-star..... #14 MVP
2008 Pau............. 1x all-star.... No MVP

Lebron's rings are like KD's, since they both obtained advantages over the league to win.. Lebron's "decision" got him asterisk rings, so an even bigger advantage was required to stop it (KD's).

However, Lebron's advantage lasted twice as long as KD's (11-16' vs 17-19'), so KD's only mistake was waiting 6 years to respond.

Btw, 2011 Lebron was a perennial loser that was pursuing his 1st title, which can't be compared to Fivebe falling short while pursuing #6 and a 2nd three-peat... So Kobe destroys Lebron and is the clearly superior player - he won with a 2nd option that was worse than several of Lebron's 3rd options, such as Bosh, Love and maybe Jamison (previous post).

Get better soon.

fallguy (over and over):

But also fallguy (over and over):

Spoiler

Show

JOURNALISM MAJORS!!!

^^^ All-star games are voted on by fans and coaches, so your attempt to say that I'm using media awards is wrong - I primarily used all-star games to compare Jamison and Pau.

Sometimes I include MVP or All-NBA as secondary factors to show that your own logic and reliance on media group think works against you.

But my posts are mostly characterized by a pure basketball comparison of players.. For example, the main difference between Lebron and Jordan is that Lebron lacks the expert jumpshooting skill to move or score off screens, so his domination relies on dominating the ball and turning everyone into spot-up shooter.. Specifically, high-scoring primary ballhandlers, aka ball-dominators like Luka or Lebron score large amounts without being assisted by teammates (low assisted rates), so they have a large volume of unassisted buckets that leaves teammates standing in spot-up roles.. The spot-up roles are validated statistically because everyone's assisted buckets or assisted rate increases alongside Lebron... Ultimately, these spot-up roles crater everyone's assists, so the team has low assists and assist deficits for every series loss of Lebron's career... Accordingly, the Achilles' heel of Lebron's game is inferior ball movement and chemistry that produces needier and weaker teams..

Turning everyone into spot-up shooter also prevents elite roster construction, young player development, or great chemistry, while also limiting strategic capacity/coaching, aka "uncoachable", or "coaching carousel"... The spot-up roles stall young players like Ingram or Hughes, thereby needing ready-made stars to win, aka "can't win organically"... This is historically-accurate, since Lebron was upset as an OKC-level favorite for 2 straight years before fleeing to form super-teams, and years later he traded young Ingram for the ready-made AD.

Finally, when Lebron averages a lot of points, the excessive ball-domination has a poor record against top teams.. This inability to carry the "star" category of scoring requires more stars and prevents GM's from getting defensive help or good role players.. So Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction compared to MJ, while his aforementioned skillet of imposing spot-up roles further hampers roster construction.

As you can see, no media awards are required for me to articulate Lebron's caliber (11-25) relative to Jordan's (1).. And anyone can look at the historical record to see that the T'Wolves, Nuggets, Warriors, Spurs, Mavs or Magic destroyed Lebron even though he was often favored and always had all-star teammates, while MJ was unbeatable the instant he got just 1 all-star... Accordingly, MJ's career was always going to be tied to 1 player because he's the only guy that was good enough to be unbeatable with 1 all-star and not need another one, while every peer needed many all-stars.

Btw, the spot-up role of teammates' is increased if the ball-dominator also has high assists (Lebron, Luka, Harden, etc), since the higher assist levels requires multiple misses by lesser players to get 1 assist.. This contrasts with a lower-assist ball-dominator like SGA that takes those shots himself as the best player, so teammates become offensive rebounders instead of spot-up shooters... Possessions certainly end favorably a little more often with the best player taking a few extra shots in key moments instead of relying on lesser teammates.

Stop pretending... Shaq never averaged 18 ppg in a choke like Lebron in 2011, and Lebron had a Kobe-like teammate during this choke that averaged 27 ppg (Wade), while also having Bosh.. This is widely considered the biggest choke of all-time.

Prime Shaq was simply never locked up, while Lebron was locked up a lot - that's the main difference between their many playoff losses.

Specifically, in addition to getting locked up in the 11' Finals, Lebron was locked up in a 2007 sweep loss, and then his other sweeps were record losses in 18' and 14' that Shaq never had... Shaq also never had a historic meltdown like Lebron in 2010, or locked up in a 7-game loss like Lebron in 08'.

So Lebron's chokes are worse than Shaq's and the worst of all-time. . This is common knowledge.. Shaq was never "locked up" and he never had record losses, while Lebron got locked up, record loss or upset in 07', 08', 09', 10', 11', 14', 18', 21', 23', and 25'... This is why Lebron is widely considered the biggest choker and loser of all-time.

Lakers losing in 5 is known as the GOAT choke. How do you only take 1 game from a team when so heavy favourite.

Warriors losing up 3-1 is second.

This.

So clearly Kobe is the superior players and yet you compare dwade and lebron joining like magic and bird O0 ?
Even saying dwade was better than both of them ….

I’m lost …..

The Lakers had already 3-peated, while the perennially-futile Lebron was seeking his first ring and assembled the top 3 PER's to do it.. People wondered if he would ever win when this historic and desperate deck-stacking failed.

The 2011 Heat were the biggest favorite ever perception-wise and talent-wise... The only reason the odds didn't follow is because oddsmakers were wary of Lebron after 2 straight losses as an OKC-level favorite in 09/10.. The meltdown in 2010 was really awkward and let everyone know that he has an issue mentally and isn't reliable in that area..

Otoh, the Lakers were 3-peat assassins (not ringless chokers like Lebron), so of course they were big favorites.. Unlike Lebron, assassins like Shaq and Kobe maintained their preseason favorite status during the regular season - they wouldn't have a weak regular season with the preseason favorite, thereby falling to underdog like Lebron's teams.. The lebron-ball skillset simply has bad chemistry, so favored talent falls to underdog.

History shows that Curry's Warriors took the league by surprise in 2015... They were a consensus bad roster with +2800 preseason odds and a 2nd option that produced less than Jeff Hornacek, yet Curry carried this to 67 and 73 wins.. So it isn't impressive to beat a 1-man team with a "big 3" preseason favorite and the only super-team in the NBA...

And it's impossible to lose with a sidekick outplaying the league MVP, since that's like Pippen outplaying Barkley, or Mathurin outplaying SGA - it's impossible to lose in these scenarios... Yet Lebron's super-team got a 1-3 deficit against a 1-man team because Lebron averaged 24 ppg and 6 TO's thru 4 games.. The Draymond suspension renewed his hope..

Btw, Dwight and Baron Davis beat 67-win teams as enormous underdogs, yet no one says that they're better than Jordan because of it, smh (Jordan never beat a 67-win team).
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Again what does it matter ?
Even when LeBron dominate in finals both team in pts, rbn and assist with absolutely garbage has teammates aka 2015 for example, u still blame him shrug .
So all your point up there gets destroyed .

And Shaq had many times had great team getting swept !
What team lebron had that was swept that was great with or that wasnt a goat team he faced ?

Delusional double standard FG smh.

FG too much LSD (drugs) or too much LSD (Lebron Deranged Syndrome) .

Lebron teamed up with a shorter and 'closer' version of himself (Wade).

Both are inferior to Kobe.

due to the nuance and intricacies to Kobe's game - the layers...

Kobe wasn't just a "downhill" PNR player like Wade or Lebron - his goat scoring diversity fit every player or system and allowed the best brands of ball (dynasty-ball, aka ball movement like the Spurs and Warriors).. The great brand of ball yielded great chemistry/teammate performance, and therefore teams playing to capacity, aka 3-peat with Shaq, or repeat with 2nd option that was worse than Lebron's 3rd options

You don’t get it do you .
U claim lebron and dwade were the best players in the league , like bird and magic teaming up , now u claim Kobe better than both of them .
Your story ( and players strength) changes depending on which arguments you are on ….

Ur splitting hairs.. Kobe, Lebron and Wade were the top 3 players in the league, and 2 of them teamed up because the 3rd was winning too much <--- Wade literally said this previously... He said that he got on the phone with Lebron to team up after Kobe got his 5th ring.. It's on YouTube