GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
^^ but better shots weren't available Even if you didn't watch back then, it's intuitive.. i.e in previous eras, teammates weren't taking 30-40 threes per game, so the spacing didn't exist - this meant that contested shots were the
Have you watched and basketball games where Michael Jordan has been on the court? It doesn't sound like it if you think that he takes optimal shots.
Have you watched and basketball games where Michael Jordan has been on the court? It doesn't sound like it if you think that he takes optimal shots.
Have you looked at the stats? MJ had to carry the scoring load, aka face max defensive attention - this was also the excuse for Lebron shooting poorly in the 07' Finals - he shot under 40% while losing the 07' Finals, 08' ECSF, or 15' Finals, so facing max defensive attention matters, aka carrying the scoring load..
In addition to facing max defensive attention, when a player carries the "star" category of scoring, it requires less stars, thereby allowing GM's to find the right defenders/others, aka elite roster construction..
So Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction, while his style of imposing spot-up roles further hampers roster construction and player development.
Of course we know that excessive ball-dominance can't beat top teams, which explains why Lebron can't carry the scoring load against top teams.. Specifically, he never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (never carried weak help over top teams), and he never successfully carried the scoring load on the championship level (never defeated max defensive attention).
Does MJ:LeBron::Stevie Nicks:Taylor work?
Hakeem and Robinson never averaged 30ppg+ in any season they played.
Today's players are so dumb. Always trying to get open shots. So dumb. Be a ****ing man and take contested shots. Yeah, your team will win 22 games in a season, but **** it, at least you're a man.
Today's players are so dumb. Always trying to get open shots. So dumb. Be a ****ing man and take contested shots. Yeah, your team will win 22 games in a season, but **** it, at least you're a man.
Basketball wasn't meant to be only open shots - that isn't basketball
The issue is that ball movement doesn't shift defenses as easily in unspaced environments as today's spaced-out game, so it took superior ball movement to shift defenses back then, and superior passes to thread the needles/lack of spacing..
Furthermore, there was no such thing as a high-screen roll, so the optimal format for ballhandlers to dominate the ball and stat-pad didn't exist - aka Bird, Magic, and MJ were getting their assists in a higher traffic and more pure basketball environment (as opposed to today's neat spacing and ballhandler-friendly/gimmicky setup).
Ultimately, the proof is in the results that we see internationally - you can't tell me today's Americans are better and would beat the original Dream Team when they barely beat or lose to opponents internationally - these opponents would be considered 1-man teams in the NBA, yet our PNR spamming skillsets, garbage mid-range, and garbage ball movement can barely hang.. Didn't we almost lose to a country that doesn't have indoor courts, yet you think we could beat the Dream Team?.. It's absurd - again, today's Americans learned hands-off, open paint "3ball" and don't really know how to play basketball - there's a difference.
Have you looked at the stats? MJ had to carry the scoring load, aka face max defensive attention - this was also the excuse for Lebron shooting poorly in the 07' Finals - he shot under 40% while losing the 07' Finals, 08' ECSF, or 15' Finals, so facing max defensive attention matters, aka carrying the scoring load.. In addition to facing max defensive attention, when a player
Maybe LeBron shoots poorly because he got max attention …while not having good player like pippen Grant and Rodman in those “failures “….
Look his second option lol with what he was stuck with lol .
Compare with mj with poor teammates , couldn’t win either pre 1991 .
Mj 1984l lost -> .436% FG
Mj 1987 lost -> .417% FG
Mj 1989 lost -> .460% FG
I could imagine FG as a coach.
Watches excellent ball movement leading to a wide open 3, swish. TIME OUT!
"WTF are you guys doing! There needs to be one more pass into the post for someone to shoot a highly contested 15 foot jump shot! That's basketball!!!!"
Fall Guy,
How much to livestream yourself drinking a bottle of this
I could imagine FG as a coach.
Watches excellent ball movement leading to a wide open 3, swish. TIME OUT!
"WTF are you guys doing! There needs to be one more pass into the post for someone to shoot a highly contested 15 foot jump shot! That's basketball!!!!"
I like coaching basketball, but I would never coach 3ball (today's game).
And as usual, you misunderstand.. I'm all for great ball movement that leads to an open shot - that's the best brand of ball that all the dynasties used (Bulls, Spurs, Warriors), aka "dynasty-ball".. The issue is that today's game is 3ball, which is a bastardized version of the game that takes the "basketball" out of basketball - it's just a 3-point contest with beginner rules that inflate everyone's stats.
Furthermore, if you want to talk about ball movement, we know that Lebron's ball-dominance kills ball movement and doesn't allow "dynasty-ball" - so Lebron's game is against your post above (aka using ball movement to get an open shot).
Specifically, all high-scoring primary ballhandlers, aka "ball-dominators" score mostly with a live dribble and on their own.. Accordingly, they have a high volume of unassisted buckets that leave everyone standing in spot-up roles - these spot-up roles crater teammates' assists and cause low assist teams - this matters because lower team assists were the constant in every series loss of Lebron's playoff career.
Btw, when I say that they took the basketball out of basketball, it's because the game has been reduced to the best way to get 3-point looks - drive-and-kick - and this approach is facilitated by hands-off defense that allows automatic penetration.. This gimmicky, drive-and-kick 3ball style also allows ballhandlers to stat-pad - the consensus is that MJ would average 40-45 in this spaced-out, hands-off and open paint format (beginner format).
Maybe LeBron shoots poorly because he got max attention …while not having good player like pippen Grant and Rodman in those
“failures “ (07' Finals, 08' ECSF, 15' Finals)….
Compare to mj with poor teammates:
Mj 1984l lost -> .436% FG
Mj 1987 lost -> .417% FG
Mj 1989 lost -> .460% FG
^^^ So Jordan shot 42-46% against max defensive attention and Lebron shot 35-39% with 5-6 TO's per game.
In addition to the poor teammates, all-stars like Pippen and Mo Williams had bad series too, but Jordan could carry this weak help over top teams, while Lebron never did.. Specifically, Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick, aka never carried weak help over top teams.
when a player carries the "star" category of scoring, it requires less stars, thereby allowing GM's to find the right defenders/others, aka elite roster construction..
So Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction, while his style of imposing spot-up roles further hampers roster construction and player development.
Of course we know that excessive ball-dominance can't beat top teams, which explains why Lebron can't carry the scoring load against top teams - see the 09' ECF where he lost as a -700 favorite - that's a bigger favorite than OKC in last year's Finals.
^^^ So Jordan shot 42-46% against max defensive attention and Lebron shot 35-39% with 5-6 TO's per game.In addition to the poor teammates, all-stars like Pippen and Mo Williams had bad series too, but Jordan could carry this weak help over top teams, while Lebron never did.. Specifically, Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick, aka n
so what ?
mj shot badly too and lost with bad teammates.
its just factual.
u can copy paste as much you want.....
Someone should tell Mo Williams about this thread. He'd be flattered that he's considered on Pippens level.
He's better than Pippen ldo.
And then he could give his thoughts on the idea that LeBron ruined his career.
Someone should tell Mo Williams about this thread. He'd be flattered that he's considered on Pippens level.
It isn't ridiculous at all when you consider the big picture.
The entire idea that LeDrive needs spacing began with Mo Williams... Mo opened up LeDrive's game, which added 21 wins and taught every GM thereafter that Lebron needs spacing.
In contrast to Mo's critical spacing, Pippen told Rachel Nichols that he can't provide 3-point spacing - he literally told Rachel Nichols that this type of fit/role caused the failure in Houston.. Can you imagine Pippen bricklaying for Lebron like he did for Hakeem?.. This scenario would mimic 2008 when Lebron won 45 games by trying to make Hughes a spot-up shooter.. Hughes averaged 22/6/5 and 1st team defense before joining Lebron and becoming a spot-up shooter like Pippen in Houston (14 on 42%).. Btw, the Rachel Nichols clip has been posted dozens of times itt and I can furnish again upon request.
Someone should tell Mo Williams about this thread. He'd be flattered that he's considered on Pippens level.
Mo was offensively superior to Pippen, who needed a system and was mostly a dunker/defender type.. Dominique and Shaq compared Pippen's system play to a role player, or not on the scouting report).. And again, since Pippen can't provide spacing and Lebron can't play in a system that Pippen needs, they would be the worst fit ever - it would be similar to the bad fits with Hughes, Westbrick, or Ingram.. Ultimately, the 09' and 10' Cavs had a better scorers than Pippen at 2nd option and 3rd option, while having better defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls.
In addition to Mo and Hughes, the go-to play that the cavs LIVED ON was a modern style pick-n-pop with Zydrunas, whereas Pippen was never a go-to player or clutch shot-maker.. The Cavs also had Jamison, who was a 20k scorer that outplayed Lebron in the 07' 1st Round - Jamison was also considered better than Pau in 08' by virtue of 14th for MVP and 2x all-star..
Ultimately, the 2010 Cavs were 7th year organic juggernauts that Lebron gave up on 1 year early, since there was a 1-star organic chip up for grabs in 2011 that Dirk grabbed.. Ultimately, when Lebron entered the league, no one expected him to give up after Year 7 and team up with opponents thereafter - this is just the beginning of him underachieving expectation and having good rosters underperform.
Lebron lost when Mo averaged 18 on 38% in the 09' ECF, while MJ always won with that from Pippen or worse, and worse team defenses than those Cavs teams
So the point is that MJ beat top teams when Pippen played badly, while Lebron never beat top teams when his sidekick played badly, whether it's Mo, Wade, Kyrie, AD, Zydrunas or Jamison - Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick
Again, excessive ball-dominance can't beat top teams, which is why Lebron can't carry the scoring load and needs more scoring help than Mo or Pippen... This matters because guys that carry the "star" category of scoring require less stars and allow the GM to get the right defenders/others, aka elite roster construction.. So Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction, while his style of imposing spot-up roles further hampers development of teammates and roster
.
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09' Mo Will vs #4 SRS Magic'.............. 18 on 38%........ #3 team defense
89' Pippen' vs #1 SRS Cavs................. 15 on 40%...... #11 team defense
97' Pippen' vs #4 SRS Heat................. 16 on 39%........ #4 team defense
98' Pippen' vs #4 SRS Pacers.............. 17 on 39%........ #9 team defense
98' Pippen' vs #3 SRS Jazz'.................. 16 on 41%........ #9 team defense
96-98' Pippen entire playoffs.............. 18 on 41%....... #1, #4, #9 defenses
^^^ Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick, while Jordan did all the time and with worse team defenses than Lebron had
TLDR: Jordan beat better teams than the 09' Magic with worse defenses than the 09' Cavs and less offensive help
so what ?
mj shot badly too and lost with bad teammates.
its just factual.
u can copy paste as much you want.....
42-46% isn't bad
So you're just lying at this point
35-39% is bad, while 42-46% is normal, despite being on the low side
Again, Lebron never beat top teams with bad performance from sidekicks, while MJ did all the time (see stats above).
Forgot one:
96' Pippen' vs #2 SRS Sonics.............. 16 on 34%........ #1 team defense
lol
For the goat its terrible .
But yeah since you put Russel at number 2 not surprise you think its great .
But you know what ?
I’m glad you say its not bad .
You just proved Lebron 2011 performance isnt the greatest choke ever .
He shoot .478% !
Pretty good huh !
But Kobe, vs that same team , with a 2 times championship roaster , got swept !
And Kobe shoot at .458% !
Ah yes so Lebron woat at .478 despite winning 2 games but Kobe its all good getting swept with championship team at .458 !
FG you are priceless .
But wait !
Kobe in 2004 lost shoot for .381% (.171% 3pts lol)
With Shaq ! And 2 other top 75 players of all time …..in 5 lol .
Vs 0 top 75 players !
No no, Lebron biggest choke ever in 2011 shooting .478% but Kobe with a top 10 player of all time shoot at .381% ….its all good !
lol man your bad FG .
Nonsense all the way …
