1-3 flopped quads- how to proceed on flop
Hey all, have a fun easy hand to discuss but wanna go over flop and turn decisions.
Ok I wanna say hand goes open to $12 from ep, goes 2 flats, I flat from sb and bb calls. Idk exact dynamics of how many called by let’s say 4-5 including me see flop. Flop is 338 with two hearts. Say $60 in pot. I start with a x, bb check, ep makes it 18, mp calls and back on me.
I elect to call bc I don’t see may calls unless som odd overpair called or someone has 2 hearts as board isn’t draw heavy. I never mind letting someone see another card on the cheap bc I have quads (duh). Bb folds and other player folds (never called 18). We see a 6 no heart on turn. I start with a x, goes ep bets 25 and a call. I elect to make it 100 and ep folds and mp calls. River is K of hearts. I elect to jam.
I started hand with say 500 and wanna say villian started with 400. Don’t know exact figures but do we ever x raise the flop here or is x raising turn good/ better?. I felt it was extremely safe to let a turn come obv so didn’t want to x raise flop and let villians find easy folds- as I block 3x and there are no real straight draws on 338. Villian folded river and acted like he had some goofy overpair.
Ep was a spewy way too passive player (he flatter kk earlier in session to a single raise pre and stacked my AQ on a Q62 flop bc his stack was on shorter side- maybe $150). Mp river player was another passive older guy that called too much with little aggression.
6 Replies
Did you consider just donking out for a small size, or min-clicking the flop?
Check-raises tend to maximize fold equity. Obviously we don't want folds. Donks tend to minimize fold equity, at least in heads-up pots. When it's 4-5 ways to the flop, even a small donk is going to look stronger.
When it's mult-way and we're OOP, it's hard to get max value without tipping our hand strength. So I might just take an unusual line, like donking small on flop, barreling small on turn, and then going for a big river bet. Alternatively, we might min-click it on the flop, and barrel on a brick, or possibly check on a flush card or over-card.
The idea is to make it look like we either have 8x or just a draw, or maybe 44-77 - some hand that would make sense for us to lead out for value and protection on the flop, but is mostly going to hate all run-outs. We want to start building the pot, then give our opponents an opportunity to try to steal it when the pot is larger.
I suppose you might also check-call flop, donk turn for a big size on a brick, then barrel for a big size on the river.
True solid logic. Im never ever donking. Maybe in like a sb vs bb spot in a tourny I might but never in cash or normal tourny hand without a super odd dynamic.
Im never min clicking as a bluff or light unless insane icm dynamic late in a tourny.
I never min click. Maybe AA preflop with stacks shallow I might as a stupid face up hand exploit preflop but yes never normally.
I'm donking this flop in a heartbeat. I think we can get pretty greedy and go for $40. I think even 8x is calling one bet. Then on the turn, we can set up a good price for a river jam targeting FDs and overpairs. We want to target overpairs and FDs to get maximum value. I think FDs and overpairs are going to get sticky on this flop and turn. Let's take advantage of when Vs are most inelastic so we can go b/b/jam in sizes that a FD turned flush or QQ will have a tough time folding.
I'd have to be very confident that one of the Vs is capable of blasting off big as a bluff to check call.
Very good point. Not really thinking they will blast off as a bluff but can see someone going crazy with an overpair or flush draw (possibly).
Looking back, maybe I should x raise flop at a bare minimum. A donk could work also but it’s something I do so rarily, I’m normally looking for a x raise or a x call in these type of spots where I don’t 3! Pre.
40 into 60 is tough bc I only feel I get called by flush draws, sticky 8x, 3x (which is impossible due to my hand), and overpairs / maybe 55-77. Maybe 2 over cards call but not sure.
As played I did set up a pot size bet or less for River but just got a bad River card to bet into as villain didnt have a flush.
Agree with donk flop bet - to be unbeatable and not bet, seems bad - villains are most inelastic on early streets.
As played, you let villain set the price and if you check-raise it looks too strong and probably folds everyone.
You should take the initiative on the flop and barrel turn & river - much better chance of getting value.
As played, I would not jam this hand, because the population overfolds to all-ins. Everything is about getting called.
Your plan is about x-raises and all-ins which are usually my bluffing lines that get folds.
Some old regs don’t make this mistake (allowing exploitable folds against them), but a major population leak is not to bet a big hand.
It’s worth pursuing the advice here. You need to get more value from your big hands or you will fall behind those that do.
Thanks this is a great response! Yea I to ink one of the leaks in my game- even in tournies is not getting value when I go crazy at times trying to get max value.
Idk I just look at it like if I have a psb left or under pot, might as well go for it. Prolly need to re evaluate this though obviously. Pot is big so maybe 1/3 or 1/4 pot is good for at least trying to get value more often on river
