POT LIMIT games can be REVERSED
Yo !!
I think everyone should see this. I'm posting this to see if you would like to play this and to discuss the hand scenarios / strategy.
It refers to:
- Pot Limit Hold'em
- Pot Limit Omaha
Pot Limit game can be played backwards:
All players post Antes and they all start from the "Fold state" (non-active player). They all get their hole cards and during the first cycle / circle of each betting round player has a chance to JOIN the hand (or WAIT if he doesn't want to). If he decides to join, he becomes an active player from then on and his hand will 100% play in the showdown. If he JOINS, he can then CHECK or BET (or CALL or RAISE), but he CAN'T FOLD. He'll have to call any bet at least. So active players play a Pot Limit game without folding. You can only win the hand in the showdown. If you're the only player active in the showdown you automatically win the pot (Antes). Community cards are dealt normally (Flop, Turn, River).
The game is based on extracting the most $ from your opponent(s) if you have the best hand.
You can guess your opponent's hole cards by seeing when he did join and what he did from then on.
You can't bluff off anyone from the hand, but you can discourage any more players from joining to increase the chance of winning the showdown.
You can't fold, but you can control the size of the pot since the game is Pot Limit.
If you want to extract as much $ as possible you have to join as soon as possible.
G.J.
10 Replies
Let's imagine you flop the nut flush draw and a few whales have "joined" the pot for some reason.
Option 1) Join the flop:
- You make the flush by the river- You shove, and stack everyone.
- You miss the flush by the river- And are forced to pay off the other players.
Option 2) Wait till the river:
- You make the flush by the river - Join, shove, and stack everyone.
- You miss the flush by the river- Don't join, losing nothing.
Let's break it down real slowly:
- If you join before the flop, you get paid when you hit, and are forced to pay when you miss.
- If you wait till river, you get paid when you hit, and don't pay anything when you miss.
Which option do you think is higher EV?
Ok, I get your point, but it's Pot Limit, so in option 2 when you join on the river, you'll win much less because the pot will be a lot smaller. To be 100% sure that you can stack them is to start building the pot on the flop or at least on the turn. Those whales can join and check. They don't have to always bet. They only have to call (or raise) if the bet was made.
It's like choosing A better than B:
A) take a small pot without risking anything
B) have 87% chance to triple up your stack and 13% of losing some $ (possibly even the entire stack).
I still choose B here.
Oh, and one more thing - if player joins and bets, but there's no one to call, the bet comes back to the player.
Nut flush draw isn't a perfect example ... but let's say you hit a top set on a non-connected flop. You want to join the hand especially if others did too. Sometimes you'll lose but if you win you will make 3x or even bigger stack. It's the same thing as in NLHE - you want to get called if you go all-in, even though you can lose sometimes.
I still believe in this game 😀
Ahh yeah sorry I was thinking no limit
I still don't see the advantage of being the first player to join though. Aren't you just committing to paying off better while getting no guarantee of getting paid off by worse?
Ahh yeah sorry I was thinking no limit
I still don't see the advantage of being the first player to join though. Aren't you just committing to paying off better while getting no guarantee of getting paid off by worse?
Ok 😀
If a worse hand joins after you, you'll eventually get paid off. If not, you'll take antes. If a better hand joins after you, you have to play smart to not lose too much.
Being the 1st who joins can scare off other players from joining - in HU or 3 handed, so it allows you to easily steal the antes, very often. In bigger games being the 1st means you can not only sometimes take antes, but also gain that psychological advantage which can save you later from losing more. For example:
pre-flop: joining 1st means "I have AA or KK or AK suited"
on the flop: "I flopped a set or a pair with a good draw or top two pair"
Joining on later streets it will point at an exact hand you're supposed to have. So, if you somehow lose, you'll lose less I think (unless opponent has the nuts). Especially if you join as 1st from early position and bet.
Interesting concept. I'm strictly a NLHE player. When I watch PLO, it looks more like gambling than playing poker. I've heard people say we need to embrace the variance if we're going to play PLO.
This game format would seem to take that idea and logically extend it. The point seems to be building a pot early when we expect to be ahead but may get outdrawn vs waiting and taking down a smaller pot when all our equity has been revealed. It would seem likely to increase the variance over standard PLO.
So...a game tailor made for degens. You must truly despise humanity. Best of luck with getting it off the ground.
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Ok, thanks. Yes, it's more a gambling game, it may be fun and a bit strategic, but I think sooner or later players would want to bluff which they can't do here.
But... I'm currently working on a new NLHE tournament format which may revolutionize bluffing. Still need to check a few things before posting it though. I might have it this time 
Purely out of curiosity, is there some potential payday for someone who invents a new form of poker, if it catches on? Like, can you get IP protection for it, and license it to cardrooms?
Or is this just your gift to the world?
Purely out of curiosity, is there some potential payday for someone who invents a new form of poker, if it catches on? Like, can you get IP protection for it, and license it to cardrooms?
Or is this just your gift to the world?
Well, if it catches on and goes worldwide, the author would probably be famous, but I think that's all. It's more a "gift" than a real business. For me personally, it would mean a completion and success of a long journey. It's my hobby.
I could only make money from a new variant by making a video game based on it, I think. I'm not sure if you can license a poker game, but I think it's not possible as far as the rules of the game.
