Four Hands with a Bad Lag
I wondered how to adjust against this bad LAG. How much tighter do you play? Do you ever just call with suited connectors and one-gappers?
Over four hours, V (around 240 in all hands) played about 50 percent of his hands, open-raising 25 percent, 3beting 10 percent, and limping the rest, including open-limping and limp-calling. Postflop, he’s been going to war with an even worse LAG (not in the hands). He made a huge bluff on the river with A-high…and won. He called down once with worse, saying “OK, I just gotta see what you have,” and mucked after his opponent showed TPTK.
Hero (covers) is TAG. Hero sat to V’s left, got good starting hands, and 3bet V five times over four hours. In hero’s final 3bet over V’s open, V called, saying “I should really 4bet you here,” and folded the flop
OTTHs
Hand 1
One limp. V in HJ raises to 12. Hero in CO with QsTs considers 3betting but decides to call (V has called hero 3bet twice already in two orbits). Button, a tight player who never bluffs, calls. BB, a bad LAG, calls. Limper folds. 4-ways.
Flop (44 after rake): JhJdTc
V bets 25. Hero folds.
Hand 2
Hero UTG opens 10 with JTs. Folds to V in BB who raises to 35. Hero folds.
Hand 3
V in HJ open-limps. Hero in CO with 9sTs raises to 12. Button, a TAG who never bluffs, folds. Blinds fold. V calls.
Flop (23 after rake): As4h3h.
V bets 15. Hero folds.
Hand 4
V opens to 12. Hero with AKo raises to 35. V calls.
Flop (64 after rake): 46Tr
V checks. Hero bets 40. V folds.
10 Replies
Hand 1 I 3bet or fold. Dont like the flat. And why did you fold flop???
Hand 2, not folding JTs against this guy, call and see a flop in position.
Hand 3: well played
Hand 4: well played
H1. Fine
H2. nitty fold, I'd call IP.
H3. Fine
H4. I'd x back, try to hit the A or K and let him blast into me.
...big thing to remember here I think is that your entire range goes up in EV against a guy playing too many hands...but... not linearly. As in your top sets on dry boards and nut flushes etc will WAY over pay while your weak value and marginal will pay more but just barely.
Stack sizes make some difference, but...
H1 3bet or call fine pre. Would lean more towards call if he's not folding to 3bets. Don't fold flop, lol. WTF do you think he always has Jx or QQ+?
H2 I wouldn't fold pre. to the 3bet
H3 Probably better to limp along if he's never folding pre. and will be sticky/aggressive post. If I get a read that he's leading any pair here I might sometimes call flop pretending I have an A, and/or hit spades or T,9 ... but if he's just leading A6o then fold is obviously good.
H4 Would raiser bigger pre. if he's not folding to 3bets. Kind of turning your hand into a bluff on the flop, it's fine when he folds.
Obviously when you put these all together it looks a bit weak, but I actually don't mind any of this.
H1 has to be a fold multiway. The LAG might or might not have anything, but there are two players still to go, not many blank turn cards and the betting is unlikely to dry up. Good disciplined fold.
H2 calling would be fine, especially as the 3bet is a touch less than 4x, but you have to show at least some respect to this being BB vs UTG and if you don't fold this hand, what do you fold? I would probably call more often than not but folding is absolutely fine.
H3 he may have nothing but your nothing is worse and he's made your life easy. There are ways of defending against donk bets but letting this go is fine.
H4 also looks to be fine.
Most of this goes to show that you don't need to make major deviations just because you've defined a player as a "bad LAG" or whatever.
Villains limited $240 stack really limits your options. You have to play tight and carefully select when to call or raise with drawing hands. Mostly hero will end up playing pairs for set mining but look for chances to play wider.
Hand 1: Marginal call preflop. Tough decision on the flop but 4 ways I probably fold also.
Hand 2: With multiple bad lags at the table I wouldn't open JTs from UTG. As played fold to the raise, there just isn't enough money in play to call that raise.
Hand 3: I would limp behind here some of the time but not all of the time. On the flop you whiffed hard and mostly folding. Against some I would occasionally call flop and make a move on the turn. This is very villain specific because you need a villain leading a lot of garbage just because the flop is ace high and willing to give up to a turn raise.
Hand 4: Standard AK c-bluff. Might dial down the number of c-bets if villain likes to float or dial it up if villain's check mostly means they have given up.
Against a V like this, at this stack depth, I wonder if it makes sense to play a polar raise/3B or fold strategy - raise/3B your big pairs and better suited aces, raise/3B your middling suited connectors, fold just about everything else.
The problem with open-raising or 3B'ing with hands like JTs, QTs, and T9s is that he doesn't fold, and it's hard to flop a strong enough hand to want to play a big pot post-flop with those sorts of combos. At least your middling suited connectors don't mind folding to a 3B/4B pre, and are less likely to be dominated when they connect with the flop.
Villains limited $240 stack really limits your options. You have to play tight and carefully select when to call or raise with drawing hands. Mostly hero will end up playing pairs for set mining but look for chances to play wider
I concluded a bad LAG playing shallow is much less profitable than one playing deep. At 240 effective, even set mining is thin value.
The problem with open-raising or 3B'ing with hands like JTs, QTs, and T9s is that he doesn't fold, and it's hard to flop a strong enough hand to want to play a big pot post-flop with those sorts of combos.
Fearing V would not fold, I called preflop in hand 1. Next time, I probably fold. It feels so nitty to toss QTs in the HJ against a LAG, but the stack depth dictates the fold. If V was deeper, I would 3bet QTs.
H1 3bet or call fine pre. Would lean more towards call if he's not folding to 3bets. Don't fold flop.
H1 has to be a fold multiway. The LAG might or might not have anything, but there are two players still to go, not many blank turn cards and the betting is unlikely to dry up.
I agree with moxterite. The two players left to act, not the LAG, dictate the fold.
I concluded a bad LAG playing shallow is much less profitable than one playing deep. At 240 effective, even set mining is thin value.
Fearing V would not fold, I called preflop in hand 1. Next time, I probably fold. It feels so nitty to toss QTs in the HJ against a LAG, but the stack depth dictates the fold. If V was deeper, I would 3bet QTs.
I've been watching a lot of vlogs and other videos recently, in which it's been noted that many of the Vegas regs are playing 3B/raise or fold from just about every position. I was already considering the value of that sort of pre-flop strategy before I read your OP.
Reading your OP got me thinking about how often I find myself in similar spots - playing hands that look decent and seem playable / reasonable pre, and yet frequently end up not flopping well enough to want to take them to war, and will often make 2nd best hands if lots of money goes in post-flop.
Against most passive, bad recs playing low stakes outside of Vegas, often buying in for the minimum 33bb-40bb, maybe it's fine to play those just-off-Broadway (98s) to lower Broadway suited connectors. But perhaps playing those hands against your bad LAG playing 120bb deep (I'm guessing this is 1/2) just isn't profitable enough, often enough.
I'm just spit-balling, but my gut says playing a more polar raise-or-fold strategy pre, cutting out those almost-premium-but-not-quite hands would give you decent board coverage on a variety of flops, without worrying that you're likely to be dominated.
Like, if your range had some AK/AQ/KQs, some Ace-wheel suited, some 45s-87s, and of course all the pairs from 55+, you'll have enough in your range to flop strong top pairs, straight/flush draws, and sets, but you won't have a lot of "where am I exactly" situations with hands like T9s on boards of QT7 or J95.
120bb is too deep to stack off without a strong hand, but not deep enough to effectively maneuver post-flop on a lot of boards.
I like how you played them with the exception of #2
Hand 1: Tight fold but fine. 4-ways without a flush draw, I'm OK with assuming someone else in the hand has got us, or will get us by the River.
Hand 2: I call the 3bet. This is like the perfect situation to see a 3bet pot. Love JTs here against a tight range (TT+, AJs+ AQo+ KQs) in position.
Hand 3: Yup. Fine
Hand 4: Good. Well played
