Clarification on Transgender Claims (good faith)
Tell me if I’m understanding the claims.
It’s that some trans people have an incorruptible sense of their true gender from the beginning, but the connection to true gender for other trans people is impeded and they don’t get the pure insight until later.
If this is correct, what is preventing the pure insight early on for the latter group? How come they don’t have the uncorrupted connection from the beginning?
Then, the de-transitioners would be those who thought they had the uncorrupted connection to their true gender, but later developed the uncorrupted connection, realizing their sex based gender is their true gender. Is this correct? Or do only the actual trans have a true gender?
Next, how can an outsider determine who actually has the incorruptible connection to their true gender and who is impeded and mistaken?
All that said, I do recognize that discussion of the issue has died down here, so I won’t continue it further.
Next you will claim the mods silenced your right winged voice.
What am I, a neuroscientist?
I can tell you're trying to Socrates your way to some dubious victory. Let me stop you there: while I may not know every relevant detail about the human brain, the fact is indisputable that my physical approach to the brain and how it informs one of one's gender rests upon a far more solid foundation than your appeal to souls and other metaphysical idiocy.
I mean, seriously, this guy who's going on about SOULS is the same guy who is asking others to provide him detailed analysis of the human brain. You believe in the Adult Santa Claus; any opinions you have on science and the physical universe in general are obviously invalid.
Look at your posts. 1 line, 2 line, 1 line, 1 line, 2 line... what are you doing here? Your paltry **** will never convince anybody of anything. Go take your transphobic Just Asking Questions ass somewhere else.
(in before some 1 or 2 line Socratic retort)
What am I, a neuroscientist?
I can tell you're trying to Socrates your way to some dubious victory. Let me stop you there: while I may not know every relevant detail about the human brain, the fact is indisputable that my physical approach to the brain and how it informs one of one's gender rests upon a far more solid foundation than your appeal to souls and other metaphysical idiocy.
I mean, seriously, this guy who's going on about SOULS is the same guy who is asking others to provide him detai
You can have your faith in gender chemicals. This thread is about clarifying our positions.
put Craig in the body of an 1830s southern white slaver and he's just another one of them who used his GOD to justify his continued whippings and beatings of black people
Everybody is the same kind of person. Some are just lucky enough to be born late enough to have some civilization socialized into them.
You don’t know me.
why the detransition rate of less than 1% is just a big fat lie.
nobody knows. it could be as high as 25% or even higher.
"That has left a small assortment of studies to guide clinicians in this emerging field of medicine. The results of these studies suggest a wide range of possibilities for rates of detransitioning, from less than 1% to 25%. The research provides even less certainty about the incidence of regret among patients who received medical treatment as minors. And the studies have serious drawbacks.
Two of the largest ones, which found that 2% or less of people who transitioned experienced regret, focused on Europeans who primarily initiated treatment as adults. Experts caution that the results, because of the differences in maturity and life experiences between adults and adolescents, may have limited relevance as an indicator of outcomes for minors.
Researchers acknowledge that studies that follow patients for only a short time may...."
The Detransition Rate Is Unknown
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...
so stop making claims you cannot prove, uke,
the rate could be much higher. you might as well include all the people who commited suicide, who never show up anywhere.
many dont speak up, they just wont.
You’re not limiting my speech yet. That doesn’t mean you don’t have a desire to. Do you deny this desire?
Of course. No idea where you come up with this nonsense.
why the detransition rate of less than 1% is just a big fat lie.
nobody knows. it could be as high as 25% or even higher.
So, which is it? The rate is unknown, or a rate of less than 1% is just a big fat lie? It can't be both.
Who are you talking to? uke's never posted in this thread.
So, which is it? The rate is unknown, or a rate of less than 1% is just a big fat lie? It can't be both.
Who are you talking to? uke's never posted in this thread.
Bobo, when people tell you this rate is under 1% or even much lower than 1%, then they are obviously lying or misinformed.
I noticed Uke not posting lately, so you are right, I should have left uke out.
I'm pretty sure the pro-trans rights crowd is also fine with people de-transitioning? If Eliott Page goes back to being Ellen Page for whatever reason, that's okay with me?
Bobo, when people tell you this rate is under 1% or even much lower than 1%, then they are obviously lying or misinformed.
I noticed Uke not posting lately, so you are right, I should have left uke out.
So what is the rate then?
I'm pretty sure the pro-trans rights crowd is also fine with people de-transitioning? If Eliott Page goes back to being Ellen Page for whatever reason, that's okay with me?
This. Not sure why we'd really care if the rate was 0.5% or 5%.
I'm pretty sure the pro-trans rights crowd is also fine with people de-transitioning? If Eliott Page goes back to being Ellen Page for whatever reason, that's okay with me?
Read the article I just posted. I think the reuters article covers this topic really well. If one thing is for certain, its that detransitionors get piled on, and thats with one reason they dont even speak up on it. They are aftraid of the mob attacking them as a traitor. thats what happens unfortunately all the time to detransitioners. thats what they are afraid of. one of the negative sides of the internet.
So what is the rate then?
This. Not sure why we'd really care if the rate was 0.5% or 5%.
nobody knows for certain. that is/was the argument, bobo. this IS the argument they were using. "no problem with transitioning the rate is almost at zero, super rare, below 1%/ 0.3% or whatever" and that is bogus since they dont know, it could be much higher.
If Eliott Page goes back to being Ellen Page for whatever reason, that's okay with me?
for you yes. it would mean a gigantic shitstorm for elliot as it means that for anyone who detransitioned and who used to be part of the group, be it forums, social media or whatever. thats the problem I have with this movement honestly.
Right. So maybe you shouldn't be declaring people as liars when you don't even know the truth yourself?
JFC dude, you JUST said that nobody knows for certain.
they claim to know for certain, when in fact they cant be certain. the studies they cite are flawed.
is it a lie when you tell teenagers that the rate is at a certain number, when these numbers come from adults only which have been observed only over a certain time frame? (and leaving out possible factors as not daring to speak up and seing a doctor out of shame) I think it is. Its at least a deception.
that was a bit poorly phrased.
a couple problems with the cited studies:
A. it only included adults. adults would make better choices here since they were at a later stage and life with more life experience and hence knew what they really want here without regretting it later.
B. these adults have been in psych. evaluation for at least a year in Europe, so they underwent a big process, whereas in the US now it is a much shorter and less dilligent process.
Ill leave it as that and let others decide now. But Id bet my left nut that the numbers will be higher in adolescents that underwent less evaluation.
Almost forgot
C. which is the non follow up with a doctor or maker of this study.
this has been emphasized by critics of these studies.
A non follow up is when a patient doesnt show up to the study anymore bc they dont want to or they know it doesnt make any sense to follow up for them. multiple factors can lead to a non follow up.
Washoe. People, esp non-scientists who have absolutely no idea how scientific stifles are conducted, the methodologies used to analyze the results and the process of peer reviews will often cite a study they have seen selectively quoted in some article or video. IIRC you may have even done that a time or two. 😀
It doesn't mean they are lying or intentionally being deceptive. They usually are just passing on a partial piece of a larger puzzle. So the best response to that imo is to inform them of other studies that may show different results, or articles that point out flaws in the studies construct or analysis.
Read the article I just posted. I think the reuters article covers this topic really well. If one thing is for certain, its that detransitionors get piled on, and thats with one reason they dont even speak up on it. They are aftraid of the mob attacking them as a traitor. thats what happens unfortunately all the time to detransitioners. thats what they are afraid of. one of the negative sides of the internet.
Don't know too much about detransitioners other than that, the very second right-wing Twitter finds a new one, they scream that **** to the rooftops; they are DESPERATE to find any and all detransitioners, and at least half the time, the detransitioner themself is like, "don't use me for your hateful propaganda, you creeps!"
Anyway, transition, detransition, retransition, I'm fine with all of that. Do you think that detransitioning is inherently bad?
