KK on Q665 two-toned board facing flop raise and turn bet
Villain is LAG-gy but not stupid. Thinking player, "analyzes" hands out-loud after they finish talking about the number of outs each guy has, etc.
Effective stacks are 350ish.
Hero KdKs in MP1 and opens to 12, CO flats, BTN calls, BB calls - 4 handed
($48) Flop Qh6d6h
BB checks, Hero cbets 35, CO raises to 85, BTN and BB fold, Hero calls
($218) Turn 5d
Hero checks, CO bets 130 - with 100 behind. Hero folds
10 Replies
Options are:
1) Fold the flop
2) Call the flop with the intention of ck/shoving the turn on safe turns (this qualifies)
3) Raise/gii on the flop
Calling the dkopand folding this turn can't be good.
I prefer 1 or 2. Leaning towards 2.
Options are:
1) Fold the flop
2) Call the flop with the intention of ck/shoving the turn on safe turns (this qualifies)
3) Raise/gii on the flop
Calling the dkopand folding this turn can't be good.
I prefer 1 or 2. Leaning towards 2.
Mehhhhh. I don't love it. Granted I don't have as many hands as you, but here's why:
I think check/shoving turn with zero fold equity is a huge punt in the face of what should be read as massive strength, I think getting it in on the flop after a raise is just another way to punt (doubt we're getting called by worse - maybeee AQo is the absolute worst hand that calls but a flush draw should fold to a 3bet shove on the flop), and I think folding this flop to a <3x raise is too nitty.
So... I guess I disagree with your options and still think my line is optimal here
:shrug:
Options are:
1) Fold the flop
2) Call the flop with the intention of ck/shoving the turn on safe turns (this qualifies)
3) Raise/gii on the flop
Calling the dkopand folding this turn can't be good.
I prefer 1 or 2. Leaning towards 2.
Agree with this. Are you calling flop to draw to 2 K outs?
We don’t need fold equity as we are not bluffing. We are getting it in against a range that includes 6x but also Qx, flush draws, and bluffs.
Mehhhhh. I don't love it. Granted I don't have as many hands as you, but here's why:
I think check/shoving turn with zero fold equity is a huge punt in the face of what should be read as massive strength, I think getting it in on the flop after a raise is just another way to punt (doubt we're getting called by worse - maybeee AQo is the absolute worst hand that calls but a flush draw should fold to a 3bet shove on the flop), and I think folding this flop to a <3x raise is too nitty.
So... I gue
So you think that he stops betting with his Qx and draws on the turn?
Otherwise he range hasn't changed. This card is basically as blank it comes.
I just let it go on the flop. Rec players aren't raising here (into three players, especially) w/ worse than KK often. I mean, is he good enough to try to get you off AA/KK? Does he put you on AK? Doubtful.
If you call the flop, check/shove the turn -- nothing has changed.
Oh wow there's that 2.6x flop c/r again, which smells like trouble. It's a single raised pot so we can't discount trips.
Edit: my bad, it's not a c/r, which I guess makes a Qx hand more realistic.
I guess we are calling the flop to see what villain does on the turn? The logic might be that if he shoved the turn, he is going for fold equity and we could call, but the smaller bet size is chunking the bets to make it easier to call them. So we figure out what they want us to do and disappoint our opponent
This is not gto, it's all live bet size tells and psychology so your experience may differ.
Also I think a LAGgy player raising a relatively static flop is not a show of massive strength. Paired boards are notoriously overbluffed.
Lastly, not all paired boards are the same. 6X is going to be one of the lowest frequency holdings to make trips in a raised pot.
If you are basically giving him credit for a 6 and folding a blank turn, why call the flop raise?
If this were heads up, I might call the flop, but he raised with two other players (besides OP) still in the hand, and so many people play 65, 76 and 86 -- even 64. I mean, it's a $12 raise, and they came here to play poker: 64 sooted is beautiful and might crack those aces.
This is 1/3 NL, right?
I open limp preflop but that's my style.
Somewhat awkward SPR postflop due to going multiway to the raise (a standard result I'm assuming), in that having offered everyone incredible IO 30++:1 preflop we absolutely can't stack off postflop with just one pear, and yet we can be put in that spot very easily (especially OOP) with an SPR of 7. So with that in mind I'd either check the flop or bet quite small. If betting larger (like we did) then I think we just have to fold to any aggression otherwise the pot is getting way too big / stacks start getting involved very quickly. So as played, I'd actually make a nitty fold to the flop raise.
And I also fold the turn.
GcluelessNLnoobG
Out of curiosity - is this 1/2, 1/3, something else?
FLOP - checking flop to check-raise isn't a terrible idea, IMO. With two hearts on board, a pair on board, and a Broadway card on board, this flop could attract more stabs then a crooked cop in an unguarded prison shower.
If we want to c-bet, I think theory says we should be c-betting small, because it's multi-way, and maybe also because it is a paired board. C-betting 70%-75% pot seems way too large. Would we take this size with QQ or 66? Probably not.
I'd be less concerned if we had bet small and then V raised. When we bet large and V raises, that's unsettling, because his big hands don't really need to raise when we bet so big. It's also unsettling that his raise is barely 2x, almost a min-click. That's usually a VERY strong hand.
I don't think we can ever fold KK to a min-click here, but I'm not loving it.
TURN - Fold. Unless he's a maniac or absolutely terrible, he's not barreling over 1/2 pot on this brick, and leaving less than 1/3 pot behind, with Qx or a flush draw, not after you called his flop raise. This is thick value.
