Value Extraction & Line Check - AK in position on KKTr flop
1/3 - effective stacks $350ish
Villain is 30s, Asian, recently sat down at the table and has only played 2-3 hands in last 15 min, but didn't showdown anything. No real reads.
To the hand:
UTG (Villain) straddles to $6, action folds to Hero with AKo on the button, hero raises to $18, both blinds fold, UTG calls $18
($36) Flop KKTr
UTG checks, Hero bets $15, UTG calls
($66) Turn 5s bringing backdoor flush draw on the board - Hero does not have a spade
UTG checks, Hero bets $40, UTG calls
($146) River 9c
UTG pauses for 10-15 seconds then checks, Hero pauses for 10-15 seconds and bets $20, UTG calls
----
Did we miss out on any value here? What sizing do you like across all 3-streets?
I would bet more otr targeting a lower king and other PP's, at least around 75 to as much as you think he'll call. We're only beat by very few hand combos. Were you inducing him to raise the river? I wouldn't do this against someone we don't know, I would just get as much value as you possibly can.
I would bet more otr targeting a lower king and other PP's, at least around 75 to as much as you think he'll call. We're only beat by very few hand combos. Were you inducing him to raise the river? I wouldn't do this against someone we don't know, I would just get as much value as you possibly can.
I didn't sense he was strong throughout the hand (whatever that means) and on the River I just wanted to get some value. If he raises, we're calling obviously, but I was pretty sure he didn't have a K otherwise he would have raised Turn. So I didn't want to fold out any pocket pairs Tx, or A-high if he wanted to look me up light
I'm cool with our relatively smallish preflop raise in this spot as it will most likely do the trick (i.e. often get us HU with the limper) plus it will produce a playable SPR of 9 in position.
Do we have an image of any sort?
With my super nitty image, against a capable player aware of that, I'm not so sure if I bet/bet/bet for stacks that I'm going to be good all that often (i.e. I think aware players can make nitty river folds to that last bet with KQ/KJ). But I do have a super nitty image to deal with.
So overall, I'm fine with not bet/bet/betting for stacks, so I'm cool with our flop/turn bets, although I think I'd size up a little on the river targetting KQ/KQ, prolly like 1/2 PSB.
The more you have an aggrotard image the more you should probably be setting things up for stacks by the river.
ETA: If he check/raises the river, then much closer to a fold than anything else, imo. And Kx could easily just be in calldown mode knowing that AK is possible, so he can still easily have Kx here. But also really depends on how clueless he is and what he thinks of us.
ETA#2: FWIW, if he somehow gets to the river with A high / Tx / pocket pairs then obviously we must have a fairly aggrotard image and/or he's a massive calling station, so should likely be aiming to play for stacks if that is what is happening.
GcluelessimagenoobG
I like it until the river. I go at least $50. You might even go $60 - $75.
You bet too big flop, too small turn, and WAY too small on river (massive blunder). Go $10 flop, 75% turn, jam river
With my super nitty image, against a capable player aware of that, I'm not so sure if I bet/bet/bet for stacks that I'm going to be good all that often
WTF
You guys are insane nits. Absolutely bonkers anyone would do anything except all in on river
ETA#3: Actually just realized the only draw came in on the river. So definitely leaning to a smaller side bet, like 1/3 PSB, and folding to a check/raise. Will actually be very difficult to get paid off by worse Kx now (like KJ, which is obviously only a bluffcatcher, but will be so much harder to call with now that our only semi-bluff gets there).
GcluelessNLnoobG
ETA#3: Actually just realized the only draw came in on the river. So definitely leaning to a smaller side bet, like 1/3 PSB, and folding to a check/raise. Will actually be very difficult to get paid off by worse Kx now (like KJ, which is obviously only a bluffcatcher, but will be so much harder to call with now that our only semi-bluff gets there).
GcluelessNLnoobG
you are trolling
You're not from around here, are you?
*If* you have a very nitty image (which I do), good luck having a shove called by worse by anyone with half a brain when the only flop draw gets there. Actually fairly decent chance a shove is a bluff here (which may actually work).
GcluelessNLnoobG
You're not from around here, are you?
*If* you have a very nitty image (which I do), good luck having a shove called by worse by anyone with half a brain when the only flop draw gets there. Actually fairly decent chance a shove is a bluff here (which may actually work).
GcluelessNLnoobG
1. OP said he played with this guy for 15 minutes. AKA likely less than one orbit
2. If you have an image which is so insanely nitty that people will fold KQ here, you are a truly awful poker player, rock bottom abysmal. Also I suppose you bluff any two non-paired hand like crazy if you have this image? Just triple barrel jam any air? Will print money
I applaud you trying to make players on this forum worse poker players through your advice. I don't know how you've managed to spend enough time to make 36000 posts on this forum and be worse than literal beginners, but somehow you've made it possible
funny thread
Op, I think you gotta bet bigger on the river. Weaker Kx will call. 10-x, and some other 2pr (e.g. Q9) will at least be tempted to call a 1/2 pot bet. Aiming to be looked up by ace high is setting your sights a little too low.
You bet too big flop, too small turn, and WAY too small on river (massive blunder). Go $10 flop, 75% turn, jam river
FWIW, this line sets up a massive 2x river jam. Again, *if* you have a remotely tight image (noting I qualified all of my posts), good luck getting paid off by worse with that.
I used to tolerate dicks a lot longer than I should have in the past, but life is too short for that. "Worse than literal beginners" is about as trolling as it gets (my results speak for themselves, wow, all beginners must be crushers?).
GwelcometomyIgnoreList,andyou'vebeenreportedG
Raise bigger pre. At least $20. $25 is also fine.
FLOP - I'd bet at least 2/3 pot heads-up. Might even bet pot. Hard for him to call with anything, but his continue range should be strong, so we can bet more.
TURN - I'd go polar, over-betting pot. Maybe 1.3x-1.5x. Same reasoning as above - hard for him to call with anything, but his continue range should be strong. We're basically repping a strong Kx or nothing. If he has a K, like KQ, he'll probably call. No reason to give him a good price to call with AXss or QJss.
RIVER - Honestly I don't know what to do, the way this was played, after betting less than 1/2 pot on flop and less than 2/3 on turn. V could get here with K9 or QJs, maybe even 99, though probably not KT or TT. Not sure what hands we can get value from. With the bet sizing here, KQ or KJ might actually go for a x/r, blocking both boats and straights, and put us in a sick spot.
I'd probably check back, because I don't know what worse hands will call. Is he calling with K8 or worse? Are we just targeting KQ and KJ? What are our possible bluffs? AXss?
But, yes, we definitely lost value by not betting bigger on flop and turn. My preference is to get as much value as we can on earlier streets, so that we can forego tricky river decisions like this one.
Yeah GG's posts are pretty comically bad. There was another post recently he advocated limping AK in a straddle pot UTG. If anyone pays him off they should reevaluate their life.
At least he reminded me there's an ignore button.
GG prefaces his posts with how tight he is and that he limps a lot of big hands. He's a winning low-stakes player with graphs to prove it. I know two players who nut-peddle live and get paid every time. GG is not offering coaching or advice for moving up levels -- just a different style for low level players that works for him -- take it or leave it, but don't be nasty.
Raise bigger pre. At least $20. $25 is also fine.
FLOP - I'd bet at least 2/3 pot heads-up. Might even bet pot. Hard for him to call with anything, but his continue range should be strong, so we can bet more.
TURN - I'd go polar, over-betting pot. Maybe 1.3x-1.5x. Same reasoning as above - hard for him to call with anything, but his continue range should be strong. We're basically repping a strong Kx or nothing. If he has a K, like KQ, he'll probably call. No reason to give him a good price to cal
Helpful. Thanks. I think I agree with this in retrospect. If he has a weak Ax or Tx we won't get paid anyway - and if he does have Kx and it's a cooler in our favor we shouldn't limit ourselves by betting small.
Probably left $50-$75 of value out there with the small river bet, maybe more if we go bigger on earlier streets.
If we are just supposed to take or leave it how is this sub supposed to give quality advice if the terrible advice isn't ostracized?
I've only participated in this sub a few days but from what I've seen it gives the worst advice of any poker strategy forum I've ever seen. Even worse than reddit which says a lot. When a post has a basic preflop blunder 90% of responses just don't even mention it, like the people giving advice here don't even know how to play basic preflop spots even close to correctly
Like I feel bad for beginners reading the crap here thinking it's any good. Its the type of stuff that will make you worse. Anyone who wants to improve should avoid this place with a 10 foot pole
I guess I'll stop participating here
Thank goodness. Sayonara!
Yeah river is poor sizing. Give V a chance to make a mistake.
Yeah my mistake being a good live pro and interrupting the low live stake shitreg awful advice in here
Last time I'll post, won't tap the tank or give any actual good advice further
bro, a little overboard posting your winrate lolol.
that said, i do think you are spot on with what you are saying. I would advise most people to really limit posting here cause you are gonna get such horrible advice. granted maybe someone's goal is to be a supernit and not evolve which is fine i do believe this specific forum hurts lots of player and i stopped posting or responding here cause of that fact.
but bro, posting your graph? lololol. love you though! still my favorite NE crusher!
Ya showing ur graph doesn’t work I tried it at the nightclub once, she snap lost whatever interest there was
So, you are pros who can give good advice, but you are going to stop posting because you think everyone here gives bad advice. You might be great poker players, but you stink at logic -- and you are incredibly selfish.
It's just so easy to give good advice and try to help people and even argue sometimes without being nasty about it. I learned that -- I hope you guys do some day.
Yeah GG's posts are pretty comically bad. There was another post recently he advocated limping AK in a straddle pot UTG. If anyone pays him off they should reevaluate their life.
At least he reminded me there's an ignore button.
imagine being so miserable that you have to denigrate one of the best and most prolific contributors and best counterpoint/alternate viewpoint poster this forum has.
...oh wait you dont have to imagine
