Covid-19 Discussion

Covid-19 Discussion

Has the wisdom and courage to realize that the cure has now become worse than the disease. It's time to open up. Stop moving the ball.

Hospital systems have not been overwhelmed.

Ventilators are not in shortage.

Treatments are being developed.

There is no cure or vaccine. This is not going away for four years.

The devastation of the cure:

Suicide rates picking up.
Massive economic devastation which causes depression, anxiety, obesity, again increase in suicide rates and directly impacts poorer economic areas.
Alcohol sales up 51%.
Domestic Abuse on the uprise
Child abuse on the uprise.
Hospitals that do not have COVID related issues are forced to lay off doctors and nurses as there are not enough patients to economically support it, meaning they won't have the staff to deal with COVID outbreaks.
Michael Avenatti gets released from prison

We all did our part. We sheltered (here in Pennsylvania for 5 weeks already).

Open the office buildings. Open the hair saloons. Get rid of stupid mask laws.

Continue to monitor outbreaks and in areas hospital systems become threatened, reenact tougher guidelines.

LET'S GET BACK TO WORK!

And stop shaming people that want common sense solutions. Waiting for a vaccine is stupid and unpractical.

) 1 View 1
24 April 2020 at 10:51 PM
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1474 Replies

5
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by Tien k

You are still very upset over that mask mandate argument where I got you to admit mask mandates were useless.

You don't have to be this emotionally invested in mask mandates.

Ah, a cracker of a start! Run, Forrest, run!




by Tien k

Alberta had a better death rate than Quebec and Ontario.

0.78% vs 1.52% and 1.09%

Looks like the alarm bells about how the sky was falling over Alberta because of their re-opening policies was unfounded.

Do you have a government source, or peer reviewed main journal one, so we can put the matter to rest?


Regarding long covid.

Absolute nothing burger in aggregate, and nothing to be concerned about at a societal level. And as a stand alone issue, using long covid as an excuse to lock down people under 50/60 that were perfectly healthy was one of the dumbest decisions ever made in human history.

Long covid and obese? Lose weight and exercise, end of story.


by Luciom k

Do you have a government source, or peer reviewed main journal one, so we can put the matter to rest?

Are you talking about covid death rates?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_p... .078%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_p... 1.52%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_p... 1.09%

Wiki but they just took these from what I assume are the government sources they linked.


by Tien k

Regarding long covid.

Absolute nothing burger in aggregate, and nothing to be concerned about at a societal level. And as a stand alone issue, using long covid as an excuse to lock down people under 50/60 that were perfectly healthy was one of the dumbest decisions ever made in human history.

Long covid? Lose some weight and exercise would probably work for the vast majority of those long covid patients.

Yeah, yeah, you said that. Believe me, we don't need to see you showing this repulsive side of you again. We already know. See what you need to do next is provide hard evidence for this claim. Rectal sources don't count.

Running count of your posts on this topic since being asked for evidence without you providing any evidence: 2

michael-jordan.gif


If we go by aggregate, dead people from covid vs total population, we get:

Alberta: 0.0012999%

Quebec: 0.002089%

Ontario: 0.0011282%

Looks like Alberta and Ontario were almost the same in terms total dead vs total population with Quebec doing quite a bit worst.


by Tien k

These posts.

Refer to post 10802.

You simply just can't let it go when you are shown to be wrong.

Move on, its just a discussion over mask mandates being useless. Nobody wears them anymore anyway so who cares.


by Tien k

Refer to post 10802.

You simply just can't let it go when you are shown to be wrong.

Move on, its just a discussion over mask mandates being useless. Nobody wears them anymore anyway so who cares.

Going to assume this was posted for me since you are still trying to beat your drum about some mysterious mask mandate win you got in your head.

Where's the evidence for your claim that "long covid just equals fat and unhealthy?"
And when was I shown to be wrong?

Running count of your posts on this topic since being asked for evidence without you providing any evidence: 3

michael-jordan.gif


by Tien k

Are you talking about covid death rates?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_p... .078%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_p... 1.52%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_p... 1.09%

Wiki but they just took these from what I assume are the government sources they linked.

No actually excess deaths. Total deaths vs baseline expected deaths from pre COVID trends


by Tien k

Refer to post 10802.

You simply just can't let it go when you are shown to be wrong.

Move on, its just a discussion over mask mandates being useless. Nobody wears them anymore anyway so who cares.

Come on man. Get with the program. Gorgon is never wrong about anything. Ever.

Even when he's shown to be wrong.


This broke you. Log off and move on.

by Gorgonian k

Don't forget to show me where you got me to "admit that mask mandates were useless in every country."

Originally Posted by Gorgonian
Mask mandates are generally useless because people won't wear masks consistently and correctly.

Mask usage is obviously beneficial and denying that is just dumb. Any quotes from any articles that say otherwise are just dumb and wrong. Data that purports to show masking doesn't work simply shows that mask mandates don't work. And the reason for that has already been explained.

Those are the facts.

If you have a particular study you'd like to examine in detail, I'd be happy to do that with you.


by Tien k

This broke you. Log off and move on.

How did you providing a quote of me saying something different than you claimed I said break me? You literally proved that I didn't say that.

Do you think:

"mask mandates were useless in every country."

and

"Mask mandates are generally useless"

mean the same thing?

If I said McDonald's generally has good french fries, do you think that means the same thing as "Every McDonalds french fry is good in every country?"

Is english your first language?

michael-jordan.gif.

Posts without providing evidence for your claim: 4

And no, I'm not logging off. I'll be around most of the day. Evade all you want. I'll be here to call you out on it and document. And laugh every step of the way.

See what I mean about the "mouth-breather" thing yet?


by Brian James k

Come on man. Get with the program. Gorgon is never wrong about anything. Ever.

Even when he's shown to be wrong.



by Brian James k

Come on man. Get with the program. Gorgon is never wrong about anything. Ever.

Even when he's shown to be wrong.

Ego.


by Tien k

Ego.

As opposed to you guys who do the same thing only you're actually demonstrably wrong like on the screen right in front of your faces. "We aren't recommending this' BrianJames "he clearly recommended it, log off and take your L" x 50. Tien "I broke you when I proved you wrong" how did you prove me wrong? by posting a response to a request I made (not a claim I made) that clearly shows I didn't say what you said I said. I didn't even make a claim that could be proven wrong by your post, and you still think you "proved me wrong."

And you think it's me with the ego problem? I'm literally just laughing at you guys.

michael-jordan.gif.

Posts without providing evidence for your claim: 5

edit: up to 6 now, counting the post below this one (trying not to spam the thread)


by Gorgonian k

How did you providing a quote of me saying something different than you claimed I said break me? You literally proved that I didn't say that.

Do you think:

"mask mandates were useless in every country."

and

"Mask mandates are generally useless"

mean the same thing?

If I said McDonald's generally has good french fries, do you think that means the same thing as "Every McDonalds french fry is good in every country?"

Is english your first language?

michael-jordan.gif.

Posts without providing evidence for yo

Ok stay logged on and fight the fight!


by Luciom k

Can you read? So a leftist source claiming x is garbage and should never be used to prove anything.

Find a normal peer reviewed source showing Alberta had a lot more excess deaths, then we can START the conversation: was allowing a few more elders to die a little sooner worth the freedom or not?

You are using random partisan people spewing takes as proof lol, how can you? That's a waste of time.

Having more infections is completely irrelevant. Having a couple of weeks of hospital under stress is cl

they reported a declaration from the medical chief of the province....
And she admitted she was wrong.
The prime minister admit he was way wrong.
Is a hardcore right wing electorate .

u want more source , fine...

https://globalnews.ca/news/8195691/alber...

On Wednesday, Premier Jason Kenney apologized to Albertans for his decision to peel back protections. He reintroduced a state of emergency and several public health measures including a vaccine passport and mandatory work-from-home rules, unless an employer determines a physical presence is required.

november 2021

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/column...

Breakenridge: Haven't we learned not to be too hasty in easing Alberta's pandemic restrictions?

As the Kenney government resists efforts to further scrutinize its handling of Alberta’s fourth wave of COVID-19, one can at least hope that some lessons were learned through that ordeal, chief among them, the dangerous folly of prematurely declaring victory.

After some very difficult and painful weeks, Alberta has seen some steady improvement in our pandemic situation over the last month or so. The rate of decline seems to have levelled off somewhat, however, and there is still pressure on the health-care system, but we do still appear to be coming out of that fourth wave.

all of this AFTER covid restriction been reimplemented.

its ok if u believe everything u hear with clear empirical evidences is fake news and conspiracy theories when it goes against your beliefs.
Glad you are not in the canadian healthcare system...

but here we saw it first handed how crazy it went, applying your beliefs in covid 19.....
And it took only only 3 months !
i cant imagine how bad it would of turn out if it last 6 months+


by Brian James k

The article you linked doesn't specifically mention bacteria at all that I can see. However we do know that bacteria can be spread through coughing so the comparison with viruses is a valid one.

Also this from the article.

It was found that some surgical masks may allow a considerable proportion of airborne virus to pass through the filter, resulting in insignificant protection against aerosolized infectious agents in the 10 to 80 nm range (Bałazy et al., 2006)

Well if you were going to post that you might be interested in this (which refutes basically all of your claims about mask ineffectiveness)

4.3. Cases studies on protection effective of masks
Mask effectiveness has been demonstrated in prevention of influenza and some other infectious diseases. Van der Sande et al. (2008) showed that the use of any type of ordinary mask may reduce the risk of exposure to viruses and infections. Some observational results confirmed that frequently using masks in a community can prevent spread of infection from sick and infectious people (Jensen et al., 2005; Rockwood & O’Donoghue, 1960; Srinivasan et al., 2004; Weaver, 1919). As a non‐pharmaceutical intervention to control virus transmission during the influenza pandemic, persistent use of masks significantly reduced the risk of influenza‐like‐illness‐associated infection (Cowling et al., 2008; Maclntyre et al., 2009). Masks were shown to have protective efficacies in excess of 80% against clinical influenza‐like‐illness (Macintyre et al., 2008). Sung et al. found that requiring people who have direct contact with patients to wear surgical masks can considerably reduce respiratory virus infection (Sung et al., 2018). A face‐to‐face interview suggested greater protective effect of medical masks than the cotton masks (Yang et al., 2011). Masks and hand hygiene may reduce respiratory diseases in shared living environments and mitigate the impact of pandemic influenza A (H1N1) (Aiello et al., 2010; Jefferson et al., 2008). Wearing masks can also reduce the risk of avian influenza infection (Wiwanitkit, 2006). Some studies explored the impact of mask use during influenza by establishing a population transmission model from an epidemiological perspective. The results showed possibility of delaying the pandemic by wearing masks nationwide (Brienen et al., 2010; Chan & Yuen, 2020).

And this:

6. SUMMARY
The current research results have shown that COVID‐19 is mainly transmitted via droplets in the air. There is a potential risk of airborne transmission in an indoor environment with poor ventilation. The distance of droplet transmission can extend up to 4 m. Based on this data, the recommended social distancing range of 1–2 m (CDC, 2020; WHO, 2020) may not necessarily guarantee the epidemic prevention. Therefore, wearing mask in public is essential as its effectiveness has already been well established by the current studies. For exhalation isolation, both surgical and N95 masks are shown to be effective in reducing the spread of respiratory diseases, but the former is more accessible and comfortable to wear compared to the latter. For inhalation protection, air filtering respirators such as N95 masks can filtrate contaminants, bacteria and other matters from reaching nose and mouth, and are more efficient in virus penetration inhibition than surgical masks.

Three major filtration mechanisms are identified, namely, interception, inertial impaction and diffusion. While interception takes place for nearby particles, inertial impaction is mainly dominated by some large particles. Diffusion mechanism primarily applies to small particles with diameters around 0.1 μm. A mask design needs to consider all these mechanisms in order to increase the filtration capacity for all particle sizes. As a result, the air filtering respirators are designed to prevent both airborne transmission and the droplets, and highly recommended for the indoor area especially in the high‐risk environment. Based on these studies, all people, regardless of physical conditions and professions, should wear masks at all times in prevention of COVID‐19. In this regard, inhalation protection via masks is particularly important in order to reduce the transmission of viruses that are potentially carried by droplets and aerosols. The mask requirement has already been proved to be effective, and recently mandated in all states of the United States (Does Your State Have a Mask Mandate Due to Coronavirus?). Considering limited resources in some regions, the home‐made masks are shown to have comparable filtration efficiencies compared to the medical masks. A conclusion can be reached based on the current studies: correctly wearing masks of all kinds, despite their different designs, functions and effectiveness, will to a large degree reduce the overall risks of COVID‐19 infection and enhance general protection from coronavirus.


by Mr Rick k

Well if you were going to post that you might be interested in this (which refutes basically all of your claims about mask ineffectiveness)

So, it's only one article. I can show you many articles/studies which claim the opposite.


by Brian James k

Speaking of excess mortality here's an interesting article/summary of US excess mortality data up to the first week in january 2024.

https://theethicalskeptic.com/2024/01/18...

More like a problem of the author linking the excess deaths to the vaccine with no evidence, while ignoring the evidence presented of the actual cause of excess deaths in the JAMA-published report. That report is behind a paywall but the salient stats from the report have been published by other media outlets. For example:

The mortality rate for children and teens in the United States surged in 2020 and 2021, driven not by deaths from Covid-19 but from fatal injuries from things like firearms, drugs and cars, according to a study published Monday in JAMA.

Infants are the only age group that did not see a significant increase in mortality, but most of the surge was due to deaths among older children.

For those ages 10 to 19, injury mortality increased 23% between 2019 and 2020 – including homicides that jumped 39% and drug overdoses that more than doubled.

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/14/health/pe...


by pocket_zeros k

More like a problem of the author linking the excess deaths to the vaccine with no evidence, while ignoring the evidence presented of the actual cause of excess deaths in the JAMA-published report. That report is behind a paywall but the salient stats from the report have been published by other media outlets. For example:

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/14/health/pe...

Ethical skeptic is a crazy guy I dealt with often on Twitter back in the day, point stands that a ton of american excess deaths during COVID weren't COVID, rather fentanyl, for the non-elders.

And we know that's the case because both trump and Biden admin institutions confirmed estimates of drug abuse related deaths broke all records in COVID years.and those deaths are almost all under 60


by Montrealcorp k

they reported a declaration from the medical chief of the province....
And she admitted she was wrong.
The prime minister admit he was way wrong.
Is a hardcore right wing electorate .

u want more source , fine...

https://globalnews.ca/news/8195691/alber...

november 2021

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/column...

all of this AFTER covid restriction been reimplemented.

its ok if u believe eve

The medical chief officer of the province was already sidelined since June, disagreed with local government, got fired, and got rehired by Extreme leftists NDP gvmnt of British Columbia later.


by pocket_zeros k

More like a problem of the author linking the excess deaths to the vaccine with no evidence, while ignoring the evidence presented of the actual cause of excess deaths in the JAMA-published report. That report is behind a paywall but the salient stats from the report have been published by other media outlets. For example:

So, that was 2020-21. How do you explain the more recent and current excess mortality figures? More gun injuries?

By the way if you actually read the whole article he does present evidence of the link to vaccines.

In terms of US county-by-county arrival of this Excess Non-Covid Natural Cause Mortality, the heaviest concentrations of this death group has been in the most highly vaccinated counties in the US. In the dynamic analysis shown in Chart 3c below, one can see that this Excess Non-Covid Natural Cause Mortality both begins solely after the rollout of the vaccine nationwide, and as well bears its heaviest impact in those counties which are most heavily vaccinated. One cannot use state level data for this because of Hope-Simpson effect during the Delta variant timeframe (a competence flag in those showing such regressions) hitting south border states most heavily. This serves to impart a misleading Yule-Simpson effect in the state level data. Only county-level data is salient.

Also here are links to parts 1 and 2 of the "Houston we have a problem" series of articles on excess mortality and it's causes, for those that may be interested.

https://theethicalskeptic.com/2022/08/20...

https://theethicalskeptic.com/2022/10/24...


by Tien k

Luciom you absolutely conquered these covid debates in 24 hours.

Well done.

QFT


by Brian James k

So, that was 2020-21. How do you explain the more recent and current excess mortality figures? More gun injuries?


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