Covid-19 Discussion
Has the wisdom and courage to realize that the cure has now become worse than the disease. It's time to open up. Stop moving the ball.
Hospital systems have not been overwhelmed.
Ventilators are not in shortage.
Treatments are being developed.
There is no cure or vaccine. This is not going away for four years.
The devastation of the cure:
Suicide rates picking up.
Massive economic devastation which causes depression, anxiety, obesity, again increase in suicide rates and directly impacts poorer economic areas.
Alcohol sales up 51%.
Domestic Abuse on the uprise
Child abuse on the uprise.
Hospitals that do not have COVID related issues are forced to lay off doctors and nurses as there are not enough patients to economically support it, meaning they won't have the staff to deal with COVID outbreaks.
Michael Avenatti gets released from prison
We all did our part. We sheltered (here in Pennsylvania for 5 weeks already).
Open the office buildings. Open the hair saloons. Get rid of stupid mask laws.
Continue to monitor outbreaks and in areas hospital systems become threatened, reenact tougher guidelines.
LET'S GET BACK TO WORK!
And stop shaming people that want common sense solutions. Waiting for a vaccine is stupid and unpractical.
According to the Bloomberg health index in 2019, Canada was number 16, the USA number 35
Health CARE index, both Canada and the USA were fairly low in 2019, but Canada was better.
But that's not what I had in mind, I was talking about underlying health conditions, if you have another index in mind let me know which
Underlying health conditions index is a new one to me
Oh, you mean you made a massive assumption that neatly fit your narrative
Underlying health conditions index is a new one to me
Oh, you mean you made a massive assumption that neatly fit your narrative
No lol I said something that is fairly well known, IE that in 2019 Americans were in terrible health conditions compared to most other wester nations (lowest life expectancy in the first world, and so on).
That's pretty well know.
The reasons for that can be debated as much as you want but the facts are very clear, Americans, for whatever reason(s) were horribly worse (comparatively).than Canada health wise when COVID hit
one thing about long covid is i worry it's being misattributed
chronic conditions are a thing most everyone had before covid, but now it feels like whenever someone has an issue it's suddenly long covid
much in the way we would look at excess deaths to get the real number of those dying from covid, we should be looking at excess chronic conditions to see if long covid is even real
The specific conditions from Long Covid are fairly wide. But many people have lost taste and smell for long periods of time during Covid and immediately following covid. These are things that basically don't ever happen to anyone. So its not random it is very specifically a result of Covid and it is Long because it is typically lasting a long time before it goes away.
Similarly with lung problems. The type of lung issues like what happened to my daughter are not unique to Covid. They can happen for a variety of reasons. But the fact that they are happening to people immediately after Covid (and sometimes during covid) means it is not random and collectively is obvious that it is due to Covid. To pretend its not is like being unable to do simple math.
And the irony is that this is identical to antivaxxers "logic" of claiming vaccine caused x, just because x followed temporarily to am event which touched 150m+ people in the USA (vaccination).
Going by long COVID and antivaxxer logic drinking water is the biggest cause of death in the nation, as it is very rare to find anyone who died who didn't drink water in the previous month
They are currently doing studies on Long Covid to try to find out why the symptoms that people are having during covid and immediately after they have covid are related to Covid. They don't know the specifics yet. But pretending that it is similar to people dying because they drink water is not very bright. Because people who drink water rarely die. Very rarely (like 7,755 people die each day in the US and 326,700,000 are drinking water so its like 1 of every 40,000). And yet people who have Covid often can't smell or taste (and by often lets go with 5% or 1 out of 20).
"Research suggests five percent (around 27.5 million individuals) of global COVID-19 infections have resulted in smell or taste impairment lasting at least six months."
Here is an article about Long Covid
"The report looked at results from the Household Pulse Survey, which collects data on how people's lives have been impacted by COVID-19.
In addition to the decline of current long COVID patients among total U.S. population, the percentage of patients reporting long COVID who were confirmed to have had the virus, fell from 18.9% to 11%.
Results showed that when broken down by age, only those below age 60 saw significant rates of decline in long COVID between June 2022 and June 2023, with significant drops particularly in fall and winter."
Yes smell/taste loss for weeks/months has been noted as a sequela on SARS-CoV-2 infections, and even if it is a sequela of other respiratory diseases as well, it looks like it might be more frequent for SARS-CoV-2 infections than for other pathogens.
Yet that's a far cry from the claim of "COVID debilitated many people long term", you are still a functional individual with a reduced/removed taste/smell unless you work very specific jobs
I thought we were talking severe problems like permanent disability, permanently reduced lung capacity and so on.
mr rick
i'm not saying that long covid is not real
i'm saying that a few months ago i was listening to an npr report about it and they were talking about "people discovering new symptoms months or years after getting covid" things like back pain
there's a ton of it which i have no doubt is legit, but a lot of it is just kind of "well that's probably long covid" and that doesn't feel like a good methodology
in fact, i even pulled over and pulled up scholar.google looking for studies into long covid to learn about the process over how it was being counted and classified and to the best of my knowledge it is not
there's no formal thing for it, it's just people & their doctors are like "maybe it's long covid" and that's it
i feel like it's something like when we were getting reports about all these children hospitalized with covid and that was not kids who were in the hospital because of covid, but in the hospital because they broke an arm on the monkey bars and during their time their they were tested and found to have covid so they get entered into the official data of hospitalized children with covid and then it gets taken out of context
my neighbor never got covid - she was got a pretty bad flu in AUG 2019 which she believes was early covid (but it obviously wasn't - something tells me patient zero in the USA was an isolated case in rural maine by an elderly lady who doesn't own a passport and never leaves her house) and now every old lady ailment she has she claims is long covid and it's just a "roll your eyes and nod your head" kind of moment because it serves no purpose to talk to her about her delusions and misattribution of - you old - you gonna have tons of long term debilitating problems - and most of those you had before covid was around anyway - it's getting worse because you're getting older, not because you think you were patient zero
Well, I guess we may never know then exactly what that something is that is causing the elevated excess mortality that coincidently occurs with perfect timing when vaccine uptake is high, as no-one in authority seems particularly interested in looking into it. The policy seems to be to ignore it and look the other way.
We do know what's behind the increase in youth mortality - it's in the paper I responded to you with a few posts ago.
A couple of honest questions:
Why is it that we don't know the long term effects of covid in young people yet we can be certain that there are no long term effects from the vaccine?
Why is it that people who dread covid (you) seem like you're rooting for it to me incredibly harmful. This one is the most puzzling to me. You'll tout covid deaths and it's almost like you're bragging. Bizarre.
Stay safe.
Nobody says this except people that were wrong and refuse the change their opinion in light of overwhelming evidence.
The health professionals in charge did a masterful job of spreading this bullshit over the airwaves in order to get the masses of the young to accept being locked down for no reason.
We do know what's behind the increase in youth mortality - it's in the paper I responded to you with a few posts ago.
Yeah, but as I explained to you before we are not just talking about youth mortality in 2020-21. As the article below explains we are talking about a much wider age range up to and including the year 2023. These are people in older age groups with life insurance. And it's not just the US. The same thing is happening in other countries with high vaccination rates. The UK for example.
Good try, but your weak explanation for the excess deaths doesn't cut it I'm afraid.
Unlike in the pandemic’s early phase, these deaths are not primarily among the old. For people 65 and over, deaths in the second quarter of 2023 were 6 percent below the pre-pandemic norm, according to a new report from the Society of Actuaries. Mortality was 26 percent higher among insured 35-to-44-year-olds, and 19 percent higher for 25-to-34-year-olds, continuing a death spike that peaked in the third quarter of 2021 at a staggering 101 percent and 79 percent above normal, respectively.
In the United Kingdom, where post-pandemic excess deaths in similar demographics also persist, a government-funded independent inquiry is underway. “With each passing week of the COVID inquiry,” the BBC reported recently, “it is clear there were deep flaws in the way decisions were made and information provided during the pandemic.”
Nobody says this except people that were wrong and refuse the change their opinion in light of overwhelming evidence.
The health professionals in charge did a masterful job of spreading this bullshit over the airwaves in order to get the masses of the young to accept being locked down for no reason.
Right. Tien knows this topic really well. Better than the Mayo Clinic, which doesn't know the long term effects of covid on people. But Tien knows. Just like he knows that long covid is just fat people being fat.
James there is no excess mortality anymore in the EU
Another interesting study here on excess mortality. This time in the Southern Hemisphere.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...
Key findings from the 180-page report include:
– In all countries included in the analysis, all-cause mortality increased when COVID-19 vaccines were deployed.
– Nine of 17 countries had no detectable excess deaths following the World Health Organization’s March 11, 2020, declaration of the pandemic until the beginning of the COVID-19 vaccination campaign.
– Unprecedented peaks in all-cause mortality were observed in January and February 2022, during the summer season of Southern Hemisphere countries coinciding with or following the rollout of boosters in 15 of 17 countries studied.
– Excess all-cause mortality during the vaccination period beginning January 2021 was 1.74 million deaths, or one death per 800 injections, in the 17 countries studied.
The researchers also argued that all-cause mortality should actually have decreased if the vaccines worked as advertised. Good point.
Another interesting study here on excess mortality. This time in the Southern Hemisphere.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...
Key findings from the 180-page report include:
– In all countries included in the analysis, all-cause mortality increased when COVID-19 vaccines were deployed.
– Nine of 17 countries had no detectable excess deaths following the World Health Organization’s March 11, 2020, declaration of the pande
Depends .
As vaccines gets deployed , opening occurs .
Unvaccinated people are more at risk so death rates can go up.
Who died exactly in this paper ?
Vaccinate or unvaccinated people ?
Depends .
As vaccines gets deployed , opening occurs .
Unvaccinated people are more at risk so death rates can go up.
Who died exactly in this paper ?
Vaccinate or unvaccinated people ?
you are answering badly to a poster who lies constantly, but you aren't helping the cause of truth.
for example one of the claim is Germany had no excess deaths in 2020 (true), and that has nothing to do with your explanation.
other James claims are just false and you don't address them.
instead you choose to blame reopening (which provenly doesn't cause any COVID death) after vaccination.
but reopening increases normal life deaths. like you know construction jobs, car accidents, normal life
Depends .
As vaccines gets deployed , opening occurs .
Unvaccinated people are more at risk so death rates can go up.
Who died exactly in this paper ?
Vaccinate or unvaccinated people ?
The countries in the study have high rates of vaccination so the ACM rates should come down not go up if the vaccines actually work, as the numbers of unvaccinated are only a small proportion of the overall population.
The paper doesn't specify the vaccination status of those who died. Not sure if that data is available anyway because a lot of countries stopped publishing that particular data.
Why would unvaccinated people die in higher numbers when vaccines are rolled out anyway? That doesn't make any sense. The study covers time periods when boosters were being deployed as well. Countries had already opened up by then.
The countries in the study have high rates of vaccination so the ACM rates should come down not go up if the vaccines actually work, as the numbers of unvaccinated are only a small proportion of the overall population.
The paper doesn't specify the vaccination status of those who died. Not sure if that data is available anyway because a lot of countries stopped publishing that particular data.
Why would unvaccinated people die in higher numbers when vaccines are rolled out anyway? That doesn't
Because vaccinated people with COVID are more in contact with the unvaccinated people .
The unvaccinated pool of death rates or hospitalizations should go up for the unvaccinated while shrinking for the vaccinated .
Because vaccinated people with COVID are more in contact with the unvaccinated people .
The unvaccinated pool of death rates or hospitalizations should go up for the unvaccinated while shrinking for the vaccinated .
Sheesh. I just explained to you that these are countries with high vaccination rates therefore the vaccinated vastly outnumber the unvaccinated. Therefore the overall death rates should go down not up if the vaccines work. Do you not understand basic math?
It's really painful to watch people try to compare cohorts with a billion moving variables and try to draw definitive conclusions about one of those variables when there are studies that control those variables and they show the benefits of vaccination extremely clearly.
It's called grasping at straws.
It's really painful to watch people try to compare cohorts with a billion moving variables and try to draw definitive conclusions about one of those variables when there are studies that control those variables and they show the benefits of vaccination extremely clearly.
It's called grasping at straws.
ye the same is true for the people who wanted to "show" efficacy of masks and NPIs in general, claiming "science" "proves" they work a lot, enough to justify mandating them.
Fact is there is little science you can do if you can't experiment in controlled settings and replicate the experiment at will.
You can massage observational data but that's not actually science
