Covid-19 Discussion
Has the wisdom and courage to realize that the cure has now become worse than the disease. It's time to open up. Stop moving the ball.
Hospital systems have not been overwhelmed.
Ventilators are not in shortage.
Treatments are being developed.
There is no cure or vaccine. This is not going away for four years.
The devastation of the cure:
Suicide rates picking up.
Massive economic devastation which causes depression, anxiety, obesity, again increase in suicide rates and directly impacts poorer economic areas.
Alcohol sales up 51%.
Domestic Abuse on the uprise
Child abuse on the uprise.
Hospitals that do not have COVID related issues are forced to lay off doctors and nurses as there are not enough patients to economically support it, meaning they won't have the staff to deal with COVID outbreaks.
Michael Avenatti gets released from prison
We all did our part. We sheltered (here in Pennsylvania for 5 weeks already).
Open the office buildings. Open the hair saloons. Get rid of stupid mask laws.
Continue to monitor outbreaks and in areas hospital systems become threatened, reenact tougher guidelines.
LET'S GET BACK TO WORK!
And stop shaming people that want common sense solutions. Waiting for a vaccine is stupid and unpractical.
ye the same is true for the people who wanted to "show" efficacy of masks and NPIs in general, claiming "science" "proves" they work a lot, enough to justify mandating them.
Fact is there is little science you can do if you can't experiment in controlled settings and replicate the experiment at will.
You can massage observational data but that's not actually science
I made a point not to respond to you anymore for reasons I stated earlier, but I will here and then put you right back on ignore.
No. It is not the same at all because there is not mountains of controlled experiments clearly showing the opposite to be true, and masks helping reduce the amount of virus exhaled into the air is just demonstrably obvious by the mask getting wet after normal respiration (hint: that's the moisture that contains the virus).
I've also been on record many times explaining that it is unethical to do correctly controlled experiments with masking and actual infectious agents, so it's an acknowledged problem that isn't going away. Doesn't mean it's not obvious that masks do what they're supposed to do. And it also doesn't mean there aren't controlled experiments with simulated infectious agents that clearly show they do.
Back to your regularly scheduled ignore list.
It's really painful to watch people try to compare cohorts with a billion moving variables and try to draw definitive conclusions about one of those variables when there are studies that control those variables and they show the benefits of vaccination extremely clearly.
It's called grasping at straws.
I wouldn't exactly call higher excess mortality a benefit of vaccines myself. But each to their own I guess.
Not surprising that you don't get basic math either though. Or basic logic for that matter.
If high vax countries have high excess mortality and low vax countries don't, you don't need a randomised controlled trial to work out what the variable is.
If high vax countries have high excess mortality and low vax countries don't, you don't need a randomised controlled trial to work out what the variable is.
Well, 1) you haven't shown that they do. You've asserted that they do and then cited opinion pieces by known conspiracy grifters like Pierre Koy, and 2) yes, yes you do need variable controls to determine possible causation. This is literally basic science: something I realize you are anxious to disregard when you think it serves your purpose.
I wouldn't exactly call higher excess mortality a benefit of vaccines myself. But each to their own I guess.
Not surprising that you don't get basic math either though. Or basic logic for that matter.
Basic math or logic, huh? You really want me to list the logical fallacies you commit in every single post you make? This one in particular is simply known as the correlation fallacy. It's a pretty textbook example of it.
For good measure, you are also committing the hasty generalization fallacy here.
Oh, and I'd also be happy to pit my math skills against yours any time you'd like.
If high vax countries have high excess mortality and low vax countries don't, you don't need a randomised controlled trial to work out what the variable is.
As an example, when I look for excess mortality stats without first going to whatever nonsense your conspiracy buddies cherry pick and massage to death, this is what I find for US, Canada, UK, and Germany:
There is absolutely nothing in this graph indicating an uptick in excess mortality coinciding with vaccine release. There is a clear one coinciding with initial, Delta and omicron strains. That's it.
I'll do another comparison shortly.
When I limited to countries with very high vaccination rates and that have reasonable current statistics, there is still nothing.
There is a long way to go to even begin to demonstrate a correlation, and a lot further to demonstrate causation.
Good luck.
When I limited to countries with very high vaccination rates and that have reasonable current statistics, there is still nothing.
There is a long way to go to even begin to demonstrate a correlation, and a lot further to demonstrate causation.
Good luck.
Japan is very interesting inasmuch as neither COVID nor the vaccine did anything to them, they never mandated the vaccine, yet most people took it (but those who didn't were never treated like animals unlike in many places in the west), they never mandated masks to the general population, they never even closed down strip clubs and prostitute parlours
Lol at posting meaningless graphs with no links to data sources or even any included description of what they represent.
Speaking of Japan here's an interesting analysis of their excess deaths.
As many as 345,000 Japanese have died in “excess” between 25-Apr-21 and 26-Mar-23 (and still counting), a truly unprecedented mortality event in the last quarter of a century.1
Prior to 25-Apr-21, excess mortality had not exhibited any signs of unusual activity, in spite of the alleged deadliness of COVID that was rife in the western world for an entire year.
Perhaps just coincidentally, Japan started administering the experimental mRNA product to its citizens a couple of weeks before death rates soared, an experiment they evidently did not need to take part in.
Lol at posting meaningless graphs with no links to data sources or even any included description of what they represent.
So sorry. I thought everyone recognized that graph. It's the most commonly cited source for this type of data. Why would I expect you to know it?
Those were graphs of excess mortality over time from:
https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortal...
These data are compiled from WMD and the Human Mortality Database. There is an explanation of how it is calculated on the link above.
Feel free to use it to support your arguments since it's just the data and not massaged and cherry picked to support a preconceived idea.
Japan is very interesting inasmuch as neither COVID nor the vaccine did anything to them, they never mandated the vaccine, yet most people took it (but those who didn't were never treated like animals unlike in many places in the west), they never mandated masks to the general population, they never even closed down strip clubs and prostitute parlours
Didn't they completely close the country to foreign tourism?
When I limited to countries with very high vaccination rates and that have reasonable current statistics, there is still nothing.
There is a long way to go to even begin to demonstrate a correlation, and a lot further to demonstrate causation.
Good luck.
LOL. I wouldn't call 20% above normal nothing exactly.
Nobody said the excess mortality was nothing. What was said was it doesn't coincide with vaccination releases. There are very obvious causes for excess mortality during these times.
I don't know. It looks like they coincide with vaccine/booster releases fairly closely to me.
Wasn't the vaccine supposed to prevent deaths anyway? Excess mortality should be lower not higher then if that was the case.
I don't know. It looks like they coincide with vaccine/booster releases fairly closely to me.
Wasn't the vaccine supposed to prevent deaths anyway? Excess mortality should be lower not higher then if that was the case.
Have you considered what excess morality would be in places where the vaccine wasn't administered in large numbers? They can't measure it because everyone is dead.
I don't know. It looks like they coincide with vaccine/booster releases fairly closely to me.
Oh I'm sure it does look like that to you, since you desperately need to see that, but go ahead and prove it.
Wasn't the vaccine supposed to prevent deaths anyway? Excess mortality should be lower not higher then if that was the case.
Lower than what? You're kind of on to something here. Let's get you all the way to the point.
Oh I'm sure it does look like that to you, since you desperately need to see that, but go ahead and prove it.
Lower than what? You're kind of on to something here. Let's get you all the way to the point.
Lower than what it is. Which is high.
Look at the Japanese study I posted earlier. Excess deaths went from normal to huge exactly coinciding with the vaccine roll out.
As many as 345,000 Japanese have died in “excess” between 25-Apr-21 and 26-Mar-23 (and still counting), a truly unprecedented mortality event in the last quarter of a century.
Prior to 25-Apr-21, excess mortality had not exhibited any signs of unusual activity, in spite of the alleged deadliness of COVID that was rife in the western world for an entire year.
Perhaps just coincidentally, Japan started administering the experimental mRNA product to its citizens a couple of weeks before death rates soared, an experiment they evidently did not need to take part in.
Also, perhaps coincidentally, each subsequent wave of death appears to follow a new round of “vaccinations”.
Especially perplexing is the second largest mortality “wave”, occurring between June and Sept 2022, coinciding with the second round of boosters, when Japan typically experiences lowest mortality.
No. The purpose of vaccines is to lower the mortality rate beneath what it would be without it.
Now do you know the best way to determine if that's the case? Compare the mortality of the vaccinated population with mortality of the unvaccinated population. Luckily, this has been done many times. Would you like to look at some of that data?
Look at the Japanese study I posted earlier. Excess deaths went from normal to huge exactly coinciding with the vaccine roll out.
No. They didn't. And I posted the data showing that they didn't. You are citing an opinion piece making claims, not the data. Look at the graph of the data and you will see it is not the case.
Lower than what it is. Which is high.
Look at the Japanese study I posted earlier. Excess deaths went from normal to huge exactly coinciding with the vaccine roll out.
Gosh I wonder what else was going on around the time of the first bump in excess mortality, btw.
On the graph of excess mortality there is a small jump coinciding with the first big waves on this one (thus, it's obviously the covid deaths). Then the first time there's a really big jump (up to around 20%) it's around September 2022, a full yeah and 6 months after Japan started the Pfizer vaccinations (Feb 17 2021 - https://web.archive.org/web/202108141338...)
So, no. There's no compelling reason from those graphs and that timeline to correlate the two. There's a much more obvious reason excess mortality was high the past few years: Covid-19.
Just compare vaccinated mortality with unvaccinated mortality controlled for age and other variables and stop jumping at ghosts in graphs that known grifters invent and insist are there.
Just to illustrate my point, I loosely lined up the dates on the two graphs.
(Japan is the smoother of the two lines, in case that isn't clear. For this experiment, ignore the more jagged line, which is Belgium).
The blue lines are just guides connecting similar dates on both graphs. As you can see they mostly line up, but skew a little towards the edges.
I marked mRNA vaccine rollout with a purple star and highlighted the excess mortality line in the purple box right after it for about 6 months. That's where we should see your gigantic increase.
We don't.
I also connected the two big spikes in excess mortality with green lines. The first one isn't big, but it's the first noticeable jump. It coincides with the first big covid wave in Japan, as you can see. The second one is around the time of the even bigger later waves.
Stop listening to liars like Pierre Kory.
No. The purpose of vaccines is to lower the mortality rate beneath what it would be without it.
Now do you know the best way to determine if that's the case? Compare the mortality of the vaccinated population with mortality of the unvaccinated population. Luckily, this has been done many times. Would you like to look at some of that data?
Well, I'm still alive and so is every other unvaccinated person I know. That's solid enough data for me.
