QQ at a paired board 3 bet pot

Hand 1. Difficult to avoid stacking off with QQ with no over cards on board and an SPR of 3.5 on the flop. I like a small bet but I think yours is too small. I would bet 40-50. The fact that he flatted pre not closing the action heavily discounts trappy AA/KK. OOP I may just 3-bet flop. I definitely would against fish that will stack off with JJ/TT/FDs. He doesn’t seem like the type. These spots suck because we are OOP and have a hand that is unlikely to get any better and most runouts only make our hand weaker. The T is a bad turn card because now TT beats us. AP I may call turn, c/f club/A/K/T rivers and c/c all other rivers.

Folding turn can’t be terrible.

Hand 2. Pre raise is too small. Flop is fine although I may go slightly smaller multi-way. Just jam turn. You have less than a pot sized bet.

Hand 1 I would just bet half pot. The thing here is you don't know if you induced a raise or he's actually strong and slow played pre w/ AA/KK.

Turn kind of sucks because now you only beat JJ. Seems like an indifferent spot so I don't mind a fold, but if you do call it's ok I think but I would fold to a river jam.

Hand 2 I would fold.

Yep on reflection I did think that flop bet was too small, but whether it would induce a raise there was a bit of background story.

I had sat at the table for around 40 minutes prior to this hand, and people have seen a few of my hands at showdown. One was that I called a BB's 3 bet with AJdd from UTG, and called his half pot bet on a 89T two hearts flop. The other one was that when I was down to £300 I 4-bet jammed with AA pre. Based on the above info I thought when I 3 bet pre, my range was more leaning towards big pocket pairs in V1's eyes, and he probably thought I wasn't a very cautious player based on the previous hands I played at this table.

I googled "pounds to dollars" on reading this lol

I think these are probably both folds based on the player details, but they are certainly very annoying folds to try to make.

H1: Hate the downbet. I know it's a thing, but it so often gets players in trouble. What was your plan for the downbet? Did you want him to raise? Why?

As played, shove or fold turn. Honestly, I can go either way, but I wouldn't be here.

H2: Call. Again, bets on flop/turn are too small, which can easily induce.

The reason for the downbet was mostly due to my fear. V1 had been friendly to me prior to this hand (first hand we played together) and his body posture was kind of relaxed but when the flop came out, I felt that his body stiffs up and I felt as if the air was frozen. I had the FEELING that he loved the flop and was doing lots of thinking whilst waiting for me to act first. Again this was my feeling - it could be totally wrong and I wouldn't recommend anyone to play purely based on the 6th senses. I am not a very cautious player but at that split second I just sensed some fear.

If I put in a half size bet or larger, any Axcc can still call, and I never excluded the possibility of him slowplaying AA or KK. If the flop bet was reasonably big, I still expected him to call, but I did not have a plan for the turn actually.

I was expecting him to call or raise my downbet, but I don't think he was expecting me to downbet, so whilst he was trying to work out my hand and get the figures right for the raise, I got myself a bit more time to read him. It might turn out an useless effort, but that's my plan.

I actually wanted to fold to his raise on the flop, but assuming that will be way too exploitative. Calling on the flop was already a crying call for me.

In that previous hand, V1 told me if the MP and LP was a bet and a call, he would raise, but given it had already been a bet and a raise, he snap folded.

I believe V1 and lots of other players in the forum inc. you have way more live experience than me. What do you and other people think about that fold? I have never had a hand in such a spot, but maybe on day in the future.

It's horrendous. I can't even imagine. It's like folding AA pre because there is too much action.

Java I think you may have missed that the nut straight fold was on a monotone flop.

It is a bit different from folding AA pre because his straight could be drawing dead against a made flush on that monotone flop. If he's lucky he's against a set and a flush draw, it would still be difficult to play oop on the turn & river.

LOL. I did. I read it and in my head monotone = rainbow. Don't know what my mind was doing 😉

I have no problem following your 6th sense -- I think it's very important. Still dislike the downbet. Bet a normal amount and tread cautiously. If he raises, easy fold. As played with your 6th sense, fold on the turn, I guess.

Hand 1 is a nasty spot. He has very good geometric sizing by making a small flop raise, small turn bet, small river jam. Folding is extremely difficult in these spots at any point in the hand.

His tank pre could mean different things. It may be that he is considering folding and may be that he is considering 4betting. Villain shouldn't have loads of 9x calling your 3bet, but he could have T9s, 98s, A9s. He can also have flush draws and combo draw, although you block a few with the Qc. Maybe 55. The other hands that make sense are hands like JJ, TT, taking you small size for weakness and protecting against FDs and over cards. KK might also tank pre considering 4betting but I would discount that some.

Any reason to think villain could be bluffing, overvaluing hands or spazing here? Unless we can rule any of those possibilities as highly unlikely, the fact that he villain could have JJ or bluffs, even TcXc for value at this point, the fact that some of the 9x hands that beat you could be folded pre, and some of the AA KK hands could be 4bet pre make me want to either call or jam on the turn. I'm not loving the spot though, and we may only have 40% equity vs the population here, but we can get called by worse made hands, combo draws, and maybe get some pair flush draws to fold. I think it would overall be +EV. If we get stacked here, I wouldn't necessarily write it off as a mistake.

One thing I want to note though is that I don't like your sizing pre. Vs a 4x open, a 3bet from the SB should probably be somewhere be somewhere between 4-5x + the dead money from the cold callers, so more like 50-55.

Flop size is meh. Probably not a huge deal.

Hand 2

Not going to fold for 130 more when villain could just have JJ or Tx. I do think your flop size is a bit big for multiway. I would go 25% or check, 30-35. Turn sizing is awkward but I guess it is okay because you can get in stacks by the river.

I don't think either of these hands are played terribly. I think sometimes you will win and sometimes you will get stacked and it's a matter of variance.

"One thing I want to note though is that I don't like your sizing pre. Vs a 4x open, a 3bet from the SB should probably be somewhere be somewhere between 4-5x + the dead money from the cold callers, so more like 50-55."

I got the calculation wrong before raising. I used 5x so it should be £56, but somehow when I reached for chips I bet £65 instead.

I am curious - you seem to have completely filtered out 99 that V1 might have?

It crossed my mind. It is one combo but sometimes that combo will slow play. It is another hand you lose to so you can stick it in an equity calculator, but it probably doesn't move the needle very much.

You made me realise that I made a significant error in the main post - the flop should be 955 two clubs, instead of 995, so massive thanks to you! And my apologies to every reader. Here's the reveal of H1.

Just double checked that H2 had no typos so the discussion could go on a bit longer.