Tom Dwan - the missing man
How convenient is it that he just falls off the face of the earth after issuing and bailing half way through a 50k hand challenge when he goes down over a million dollars?
He come out a year or so ago and said that he has this "big" problem with FTP that he would address once he had a decent nights sleep, what ever happened here?
He agreed to pay penalties on a monthly basis for not playing an agreed amount of hands with jungle, did cates ever receive any of the penalty money? I think it's about time the community got some answers. There was a lot of money placed on the outcome of the match which never got resolved, as you can imagine anyone who took jungle's side must be pretty aggrieved.
Ike and Justin bonomo was both judges along with Ivey being escrow, from what I remember Ivey wanted nothing to do with any of the decision making after dwan went AWOL which lead to phil sending jungle his 500k back. What's the point of having judges in any bet if they can't actually enforce any rulings?
If anyone else had bailed on a bet of this size when he should have escrowed the 1.5million it would be a much bigger deal.
To add to that he's listed to play in the 500k super high roller at the aria
I just can't imagine observing Dwan for five seconds and being impressed.
Tom Dwan does not seem like "the drug guy". He's just stressed the **** out after being in debt for so long, probably has trouble sleeping and ****
Maybe he's setting them up Ivey style!
Honestly not sure if Ivey is a legit degenerate. But a year or so before the baccarat thing with him came out I saw him playing 100k a roll craps. Could have just been a degen with too much money or could have been playing the long game to set them up for the bacc play.
I get that these guys arrive at the top partly by being irrationally competitive/gambly.
What's always amazed me is that minds like this wouldn't be bored with excruciatingly boring degen games.
Playing too big, or playing games they're weak in or losing tons at golf... all that makes sense. Standing there betting on mindless -ev coin flips for hours, as someone who is a genius at gambling games, is hard to understand
When you're buried in debts, the $ you make doesn't mean anything. The $ to make it out doesn't exist in the gambling world unless you're taking big risks, and if you pay out every time you have a score, every loss suddenly threatens to send you into the nether realm. If you're grinding 500/1k and have to drop down to 25/50, you're suddenly so far away from solvency. Variance is also wild so realistically the wins don't mean a ton even if externally it seems like a good time to pay (especially if he's backed). We all think we're going to win when we sit down, but realistically Dwan knows a big score doesn't guarantee anything. I used to think being staked for games was cool but if I'm splitting the profits then I'm always playing a smaller game effectively. We see Dwan playing 4 million 8 million HK$ or whatever, but who knows what effective stakes he himself is playing.
Debts aside, when you gamble for high stakes constantly, money ceases to have meaning. It becomes a tool. $ can become $$$, $$$ can become $$$$$$$. There is no reason why you would stop, or do anything with the money. Degenning at the pits seems unfathomable, but it may just be that they're okay with the risk and just want something to happen. Being even, or being where you're at financially when you want to have more, can lead to wanting to be up or down, but needing one of the two to happen. Also, when you're grinding poker, it can be an appealing situation to find a way to gamble that doesn't require any brainpower (most popular gambling games at casinos).
If you have enough debts, you tend to want to pay them off all at once. You have a plan to get to a level of $ where you can afford to pay it all off lump-sum, and until then none of the $ you make has any meaning. That $ also makes you believe your own plan, so sending it off to minor debts isn't appealing. Dwan is not an outright bad dude, but he's in a large hole that is hard af to dig out of with poker on the decline.
Armchair psychologist bs aside, if Tom's in trouble (even if he's a degen) we should try to get him some kinda legit gig where he can make reliable $. He's one of the greatest (or most interesting) minds in poker and he's low-key funny, and he's bored. The dude has looked bored for a long time now. "Oh he's on pills" "Oh he took edibles". Maybe, but more than anything he just looks like he needs something new to get excited about. Casinos are not exactly innovative, so the experience is pretty much the same after a while even if you're with the most Rui Cao fun-time waffle zone humans. I think he'd be a good announcer. Giving away his mindset doesn't really matter, cuz he can just do something else. Nobody good at poker is playing like a robot anyway in a regular game. Your style has to be fluid and shift with perceptions. If you throw the bag at Dwan to announce the WSOP this summer I think he'd bite, and it would be a lot more enjoyable to have people in the booth who you can actually learn from.
PS I know an announcing gig is not any money at all, but shifting industries for a celebrity can jumpstart other projects. He gets the minimum exposure considering how much of a rare Pokemon he is in poker. People getting regular or guaranteed paychecks pay back debts way quicker.
Wat
Be cool to do the same for Ivey. It doesn't have to be announcing, there is a lot of room for new media and projects in poker.
timestamp 8:10:30 Bob tells a story about how Dwan owes him $2M, he's walking around the Aria at 3AM and sees the floor picking up Dwan's $300k stack due to him being absent for so long, Bob takes the stack from the table and that's how he had to collect the debt from Dwan. good chance Dwan was at the craps table or somewhere in the pits while this was happening.
Be cool to do the same for Ivey. It doesn't have to be announcing, there is a lot of room for new media and projects in poker.
Phil Ivey is a WPT ambassador. He was doing some appearances during the recent events at the Wynn.
He has never sought out the spotlight in terms of commentating or getting himself in front of the cameras in a non-playing capacity.
In terms of "projects" though, there was Full Tilt Poker, Ivey League, "Life of Ivey" on PokerRoad, and his MasterClass.
He doesn't seem super eager to capitalize on his notoriety, but every once in a while, he gets roped into something.
I hope he writes a book some day because he seems like an interesting guy and I'm sure he'd have some good stories and/or insights.
T.D. Cookier itt
timestamp 8:10:30 Bob tells a story about how Dwan owes him $2M, he's walking around the Aria at 3AM and sees the floor picking up Dwan's $300k stack due to him being absent for so long, Bob takes the stack from the table and that's how he had to collect the debt from Dwan. good chance Dwan was at the craps table or somewhere in the pits while this was happening.
omg thank u for sharing
was lmao at this
Dwan is so red faced can't even bluff that his story is correct
still like him i just wont lend him money lol or bet a challenge
What's always amazed me is that minds like this wouldn't be bored with excruciatingly boring degen games.
Playing too big, or playing games they're weak in or losing tons at golf... all that makes sense. Standing there betting on mindless -ev coin flips for hours, as someone who is a genius at gambling games, is hard to understand
rosaparks makes good points... maybe too good given this is NVG
i'd add that maybe he craves the social aspect of craps. poker is adversarial and people often wish death upon you when you win. craps can be like gambling team sports.
Spoiler
I'm just trying to backdoor into a Ivey/Dwan buddy cop reality show where Dwan inadvertently drives Phil crazy and we get hundreds of "ok Tom" eyerolls.
Most poker documentaries tell me a story I already know. Most poker celebrities are not that exciting. Most games are too time consuming to really watch. Most poker movies are fantastically cringe. Give me something new made by the people we want to see.
Bob is 20% annoying so I'm vaguely glad he had a hard time collecting.
I'm just trying to backdoor into a Ivey/Dwan buddy cop reality show where Dwan inadvertently drives Phil crazy and we get hundreds of "ok Tom" eyerolls.
Most poker documentaries tell me a story I already know. Most poker celebrities are not that exciting. Most games are too time consuming to really watch. Most poker movies are fantastically cringe. Give me something new made by the people we want to see.
Bob is 20% annoying so I'm vaguely glad he had a hard time collecting.
The Other Guys Part 2 starring Tom Dwan as a cop with a fake wood gun:
with dozens coming out of the twitter woodwork claiming dwan owes them millions, i wonder whether they lent out of the kindness of their heart or charged vig? can't say i have much sympathy either way. loaning a gambler millions with no recourse baffles me.
I wonder how many tweets it'll take before the floodgates open and everyone posts how much he owes.
That’s so ****ed up. I think Tom owing these huge sums of money should be it’s own thread.
I know he is / used to be the golden boy of two plus two but now this info just gets buried here and most of the users are not going to pay this any attention.
Separate thread might also bring more information on the amounts and people Dwan has scammed.
That’s so ****ed up. I think Tom owing these huge sums of money should be it’s own thread.
I know he is / used to be the golden boy of two plus two but now this info just gets buried here and most of the users are not going to pay this any attention.
Separate thread might also bring more information on the amounts and people Dwan has scammed.
I'd second this, i love watching dwan play and i forgave him for the durrrr challenge because that was a FTP promotion but this plus other things makes a pattern and that deserves some investigation and a response from big D. I'll hear him out but right now it dunt look gewd.
I mean if you just take his televised cash game play he has dominated most of the biggest games and players we've seen. The highlights of his plays are absolutely GOATed. Ivey, Negreanu, greenstein, Antonius, Chinese billionaires, He's played all of them and usually came out on top. maybe he's a mega degen on the side and blows millions but Stu ungar was the same way and people still consider him one of the best card players ever. If you add in what we can only speculate to be easiuly the biggest games ever played and the craziest lineups Dwans history is insane.
You can not like him personally and think he's done some scummy things but his resume is undeniable. I don't want to ride his dick too hard but the kids definitely going in the hall of fame at some point and if that's not worth respect in this game idk what is.
I mean if you just take his televised cash game play he has dominated most of the biggest games and players we've seen. The highlights of his plays are absolutely GOATed. Ivey, Negreanu, greenstein, Antonius, Chinese billionaires, He's played all of them and usually came out on top. maybe he's a mega degen on the side and blows millions but Stu ungar was the same way and people still consider him one of the best card players ever. If you add in what we can only speculate to be easiuly the bigges
I respect Andrew Robl's Game far more than Dwans if we're talking the best cash player over the last 20 years.
