British Politics
Been on holiday for a few weeks, surprised to find no general discussion of British politics so though I'd kick one off.
Tory leadership contest is quickly turning into farce. Trump has backed Boris, which should be reason enough for anyone with half a brain to exclude him.
Of the other candidates Rory Stewart looks the best of the outsiders. Surprised to see Cleverly and Javid not further up the betting, but not sure the Tory membership are ready for a brown PM.
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/bri...
Regarding the LD leadership contest, Jo Swinson is miles ahead of any other candidate (and indeed any of the Tory lot). Should be a shoe in.
Finally, it's Groundhog Day in Labour - the more serious the anti-Semitism claims get, the more Corbyn's cronies write their own obituary by blaming it on outlandish conspiracy theories - this week, it's apparently the Jewish Embassy's fault...
Harassing politicians at their homes and in restaurants is a British thing too? I always assumed that was just something American leftists did, but didn't think it was also a British thing.
Streets and roads are generally public spaces where protests and demos have taken place for hundreds of years.
A restaurant/pub is not a public space and you are there as the (paying) guest of the owner who can insist you leave whenever they want. (This is known as being barred, as I'm sure chezlaw can attest).
If far-right protesters were outside a female left wing MP's house then there is 0% chance you would feel this way.
It's not if, it's when. Far right Football thugs are pretty good at organising trouble. I doubt it will be long before we see them harassing women and ethnic minority MPs.
Came to make this exact point. If far-right protesters were outside a female left wing MP's house then there is 0% chance you would feel this way.
Nonsense. I'd think it was appalling but it is their right to be appalling if they're acting within the law.
0% chance of far right wingers doing that without infringement of hate laws (which America doesn't have btw).
It's not if, it's when. Far right Football thugs are pretty good at organising trouble. I doubt it will be long before we see them harassing women and ethnic minority MPs.
Better shut up about how terrible feminism has been for the average white British male's chance of successfully mating, and how immigrants are criminals, then.
You can "be against" something and still support people's right to do it. This is the point that joejoe didn't understand.
Please can you post a video of what you're calling harassment and not a protest against an MP? I need to see an example of what you're talking about.
I dont support their right to do it.
Do you support the right to protest outside abortion clinics? I pick that one as I'm sure you can find videos very easily?
There's clearly a difference between protest and harassment, and the law supports one and not the other (though its support for protest has been eroded by this government).
I don't know why you think extra legislation is needed and you haven't given any examples we can all look at to know we are talking about the same things.
During the passage of the Public Order Act 2023, Parliament voted to introduce legislation to prohibit certain activities within 150 metres of an abortion clinic or a hospital that provides abortion services (“Safe Access Zones”😉. The debates during the passage of the legislation showed that many people have firmly held - but opposing - views about the merits of curtailing the right to protest in order to enable women to freely access abortion services.
This is new legislation and determining the appropriate balance between competing interests will not always be straightforward. Therefore, the Home Office has produced draft non-statutory guidance to support the introduction of Safe Access Zones.
This guidance is designed to ensure that abortion service providers and everyone within Safe Access Zones are clear as to what is expected under the new law and that law enforcement agencies have a clear and consistent understanding around the enforcement of Safe Access Zones.
It is underpinned by the following key principles:
it is unacceptable for anyone to be harassed or distressed simply for exercising their legal right to access abortion services
the rights to gather, to express views and to manifest religious beliefs are a cornerstone of democracy in Britain. People should be free to gather and express their views, however uncomfortable they are to others, providing they do so within the law
This consultation seeks to ensure that we get the balance right in implementing Safe Access Zones. We are seeking views on the clarity and content of the non-statutory guidance and if it reflects what is contained within the Public Order Act 2023.
This consultation will be open for 6 weeks, closing on Monday 22 January 2024 at 11:59pm. You can reply via the online form or by emailing [email]sazconsultationinbox@homeoffice.gov.uk[/email]
This consultation is aimed at:
abortion service providers and health professionals
pro-life organisations and supporters
pro-choice organisations and supporters
current and former service users
local Authorities in England and Wales
police Forces and Police and Crime Commissioners in England and Wales
local residents of abortion clinics and hospitals
any other interested organisations or members of the public
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultati...
In principle I'm very much on the "curtailing the right to protest" side. Despite also being a workspace, this is much simpler than MP's homes imo. Do we even agree on this or am I being a fascist?
I don't see anything about the streets MPs live in.
I'm not against that legislation if it's restricted to abortion services because it's a woman's right to choose whether to keep a baby (within the framework of abortion legislation).
Now do you have any video examples of the sort of protests in MPs streets that you think breach acceptability but don't break laws on harassment or hate speech as they stand (which I think are generally decent laws)?
Ok so we can agree that the curbing the rightto protest isn't fascist
No I dont have any videos to hand. No idea why we would need them to know allowing the far right etc to protest outside MPs homes would be a really bad idea.
But allowing the left to protest in the street outside a Nazi MPs house would be ok to me, so I'd allow it in all cases, whereas you would want them stopped.
Not at all surprised you don't have any videos illustrating the cases that can't be handled by existing legislation.
But allowing the left to protest in the street outside a Nazi MPs house would be ok to me, so I'd allow it in all cases, whereas you would want them stopped.
That's fine we can disagree,
I'm definitely more worried about the targeting of any half-decent person who sticks ther head up. Especially women, minorites, LGBTers etc who are the ones who will bear the brunt of it. So I don't think it should be allowed. I agree with you that supporting it and the right to do it are different. I think it should always be illegal but I'd sometimes support it.
Maybe it can be handled by existing leglislation. That's not the issue. If it's already illegal then good. You are right not to be suprised at the lack of videos.
I'm afraid it all comes down to the popular media that sets the agenda for focussed hatred that becomes amplified through the social media megaphone, even including this tiny website where the failure of leftists such as yourself to challenge bigotry against immigrants has been marked.
You and your ilk share some responsibility for the attacks on those groups.
Ok back to silly nonsense. We were dong so well
As stupid as blaming you for the attacks.
Appeasement of bigots does nothing to suppress the "hostile environment" to immigrants, and allows it to thrive.
Allowing bigots to protest outside peoples houses etc does seems like a very bad idea. It would help with the hostile environment and far worse.
I wouldn't appease them by allowing them that right.
Counter protests would also be permissible and probably an expected outcome.
Lol is Jalfrezi suggesting anyone who doesn't like horrible, aggy protesters being allowed to harrass people wherever they want must be a right wing nut job.
Chez, dont feed the troll any more, he's had his fun for today
dieshitter in for a dump I see.
My impressipn was just stop oil do this because this govt made it so hard to protest at company offices and nearby and in general hard at all
So they do what they can in a world of declining protesting rights
Lee Anderson on GB News tonight:
No problem whatsoever if protestors arrived in his street and called him out for racism and inciting racial hatred. This is basically the BNP who now even have their own national TV channel for propaganda masquerading as news. How the **** did this ever happen to the UK?
Imagine a Labour MP talking like this about a Jewish Tory.
jews controlling the country through control of the media and so on is a standard trope of the corbynista wing of the labour party
Lee Anderson on GB News tonight:
No problem whatsoever if protestors arrived in his street and called him out for racism and inciting racial hatred. This is basically the BNP who now even have their own national TV channel for propaganda masquerading as news. How the **** did this ever happen to the UK?
I was going to say that nothing sums up the state of the Conservative party right now as much as that man, but he has a fair bit of competition in that regard.
No problem whatsoever if protestors arrived in his street and called him out for racism and inciting racial hatred. This is basically the BNP who now even have their own national TV channel for propaganda masquerading as news. How the **** did this ever happen to the UK?
I do have a problem if they protest outside of Sadiq Khan's home
Re your counter protest point. I wouldn't object to protests outside abortion clincs if i thought counter protests was a solution to the problem.
re how did this happen in the uk? pricnipally it's 40+ years of right wing governments and the usa. Add the deep folly of enabling extreme channels by making so many unwelcome int he mainstream - wtf do we think is going to happen?
did this actually happen, or it's just some bad taste AI generated joke?
