The GG's decision to ban trackers and Holtz's hypocrisy
I don’t really get the point of view of the majority of more or less influential people in the community regarding the latest innovations in the GGPN network (Poker, etc.). For my part, the least I can do is note everything that is going on right now.
It all started with Holz’s post on Twitter, where he enthusiastically announced the start of cooperation with the information security department of GG network and voiced 3 points that he wants to focus on in the near future:
1. Fight against RTA (real-time assistance)
2. Fight against MDA (mass data analysys)
3. Fight with Collusion (collusive plays/ghosting)
The only respond I got to my question under the post was a ban. That’s the behavior worthy of a network ambassador and a representative of the Poker Integrity Department, which should serve as a connection between Information Security Department and the community, isn’t it? But let’s put this one aside for now.
I would like to focus the reader’s attention on point number 2 (MDA). To begin with, we will dive into the background of the issue; the Holdem Manager Twitter page was created in October 2009 and we will use this date as the point of appearance of hand history tracking as such. After all, it is the moment Security Department of rooms allowed the use of tracking software that set the entire course of industry development up to this point. One can argue endlessly about how exactly the number of stables and use of MDA during development of a player in any poker school affect the industry, but the fact remains that the networks are responsible for the chosen course themselves.
Yes, the presence of trackers has given rise to a certain number of scammers who use them to write strategies for bot farms, etc., but also the presence and ability to use trackers is a guarantee of fair play for the player.
Spoiler
Just a reminder, when you get a tetanus shot there is a possibility of death, when you start using atomic energy there is a possibility of nuclear war, etc.
Speaking of fair play: the poker community has shown its effectiveness in the fight against bots and identifying super-users on various sites precisely thanks to the presence of trackers and MDA. No one, of course, can tell who does more percentage wise, the Information Security of rooms or community enthusiasts; but if you compare the number of refunds from rooms with the public cases where enthusiasts had a hand, it seems that it is at least close.
However, the security systems of the rooms and GGPN in particular, have shown their incompetence, both in the fight against bots (how can your strategy be effective if the community identifies bots better than you do?) and in the fight against super users (moneytaker69 and who knows how many more people have used the ineffectiveness of the software).
Among other things, don’t you think, my dear reader, that introducing rules into the user agreement of the site that go against the PUBLIC rules of other sites and forcing this way law-abiding players to choose between playing other sites with tracker or playing GG and other sites without one (while lawbreaking players just find a new way of bypassing the security system), is - to put it mildly - an action that is aimed not only at maintaining the purity of the game?
Now let's return to where we started for a short time. Probably everyone knows that Fedor Holz is the owner of the Pokercode. I bought a subscription to his wonderful product to check one thing out (in reality, I got the invaluable experience of buying crap for money). And, OH GOD, WHAT A SURPRISE, in the very first random video I open in MTT course from Fedor I see the following:
For those not understanding what you see on the screen, on the left there is a GTO 3bet range in the MP vs BB situation, and on the right, there is an average 3bet range in the MP vs BB situation obtained using MDA. This is how awkward it is, while Fedor declares a witch-hunt on Twitter and claims that using MDA to create strategies is unacceptable and should be forbidden, he actually sells a course that is based on MDA.
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Yes, I get that it needs time to sink in. Let’s go over it again. Fedor, being poker ambassador of the highest level, announces cooperation with the security service of the leading platform, while at the same time selling courses (not cheap, by the way, at the time of publication it is 1.2k USD/year) content of which is based on MDA. The screenshot above is not a lone occasion of using MDA, the word “population” appears in most of the videos.
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Now let's try to figure out together how sincere Fedor is in his statements and whether he is really interested in fair play or maybe he just sold out and now pushes forward what is beneficial to the site he represents?
Simultaneously with these innovations, the site is introducing a withdrawal limit of 5k USD/day funny coincidence, right?
I said it before in platinum community in Discord, but I’ll repeat it here as well:
A huge request to the GGPN management and specifically to the Information Security Department from me personally and from the entire community: find competent people to start an open dialogue with a competent representative of poker community, so we can move together towards the solution, if you really are interested in fair play.
And another request to the community: spread the information as much as possible. I really want the average player to think critically and to evaluate the news looking at the whole picture, not just the beautiful part where Fedor Holz (Poker Star) joins the Security Council and announces radical changes => Sure thing the changes are good for us, Fedor himself watched over every step.
Maybe then, through maximum publicity, we can convey the dissatisfaction of community to the management of the site and, for once in a lifetime, defend the interests of the players.
Agree, it is very troubling for them to try to force no trackers to be open while playing when any legit player cannot use the trackers to cheat on the site anyways - seems the real motivation is to make sure regs cannot play on other sites at the same time as GG (force even more of a monopoly) instead of it actually being a security measure.
Effects many legit players negatively more so than it affects the small % of cheaters who will just find a different way to cheat with huds on a no-hud site etc imo
I don't see how this stops MDA, unless they are also stopping providing of hand histories ?
The fact that Holz decided to stay on as an ambassador for GG "security and integrity" (lmao) while everyone else (Koon, Petrangelo, Seth Davies, Andy Lichtenberger) stepped down says everything you need to know about his character.
idk what Fedor's thinking but this **** is a joke
Holtz just shipped a Triton Event like 5 min ago.
Greatest fighter against RTA in the world...helped to build & promote "instant" solver ODIN, that can only be used for RTA
How about dynamic ranges with no game integrity check (like gtowiz)?
But hey, if WPN sCamEO can make botfarm create 20+ new accounts that beat mid&high stakes with positive redline and issue 0 refunds, maybe this guy can make life easier for his(?) stables at GG.
Another interesting comparison. This is what free chess sites (also a game of decisions) provide in terms of data & functionality in player profiles
You can see accuracy of decision (like gto accuracy check), you can get data on averages for particular spots. F.e. accuracy of King moves in early game for 2000 rating would be 70%. Then you can make these averages for all spots. If somebody registered yesterday & has 100% accuracy, that is an easy indicator of unfair play.
Same in video games, where you have game history in account & you can download demos & watch suspect's gameplay.
You have all the tools you need to accurately identify if you were playing the cheater & block/report him.
Now compare that what they offer you in poker for thousands in rake $. Nameless, blogless, registered yesterday player can start crushing NL1k and all you'll have is "our bestest security is on the case". Same security that allowed superusers (before it got noticed by outsiders with MDA), same security that allowed botfarm to clear 10kk, same security that allows seating scripts for years.
Fedor is about as helpful to game security at GG as Nanonoko is to game security at ACR!
Fully agree with this.
Fedor Holtz and Daniel Negreanu are pretty much the only live high stakes players with big sponsorship deals.
In todays landscape you have to be a streamer, youtuber or celebrity to get any chance at a sponsorship with GG or PS.
Can anyone really blame them for taking the free money whilst it's still there.
Fully agree with this.
Fedor Holtz and Daniel Negreanu are pretty much the only live high stakes players with big sponsorship deals.
In todays landscape you have to be a streamer, youtuber or celebrity to get any chance at a sponsorship with GG or PS.
Can anyone really blame them for taking the free money whilst it's still there.
Not absolving DNegs of all blame, but there is a big difference between being just a face ambassador, and being the literal "security and integrity" ambassador. GG dont really have many issues in terms of being a fun site to play at for fun players who are the players DNegs is there to appeal to. GG however have a host of issues in the "security and integrity" department which Holz is the face of.
Holz is a name that many players know and trust, and when they see he is the "security and integrity" ambassador for GG, they are inclined to believe that GG dont have any problems in that department. Holz knows this, and he also knows that its not true. So its a complete joke of a position that only a dickwad would accept.
so let me get this straight:
-Fedor holds given his ' integrityjob' is getting previlege information of hand histories of all highstake players, the same players he still plays poker against
-He also gets MDA for his course
-and he's still getting paid for this
how the **** is this possible?
Who cares? Anyone with a brain stopped playing on the site years ago
Not absolving DNegs of all blame, but there is a big difference between being just a face ambassador, and being the literal "security and integrity" ambassador. GG dont really have many issues in terms of being a fun site to play at for fun players who are the players DNegs is there to appeal to. GG however have a host of issues in the "security and integrity" department which Holz is the face of.
Holz is a name that many players know and trust, and when they see he is the "security and integrity
I doubt 99.9% of players on GG even know Fedor is the security and integrity ambassador. They just see his face on the adverts on the home screen, the same as DN and Elky.
Isn't the only reason Jason Koon left the security and integrity position because he got dropped off the GG brand ambassador line-up?
You're deluded if you think most people wouldn't snap up the chance to get likely 6 figures, for wearing a patch and putting out a few tweets a year.
I cant vouch for pokercode but i know Matthias many years and i fail to believe his seminars are not good. He is hard working, with clear thought process which he explains at an excellent level. I havent watched his seminars and i dont know his target audience. You will prepare in a different way to deliver coaching to audience of 50$abi, 150$ abi, 300$+ abi. I cant vouch for anyone else since the majority of mtt regulars i have talked are way behind in the thought process but Matthias is not the case. Mtts are a bit chaotic to study and most people are more like trying to justify some lines than think through the line and range interactions through multiple streets (Matthias is not like this and there are a few other people i talked with similar to Matthias but they are the exceoptions to the rule)
You should always keep in mind what is the target audience but i doubt Matthias will deliver anything but high quality content targeted to the audience pokercode has
Regarding Fedor's involvement in the secutiry, is propably a mistake from both gg and Fedor since he doesnt grind midstakes mtts where the cheating is rampant including rta, collusion, using hud in gg and other. I am pretty sure it was just a marketing move from gg since Fedor is the poker face of success grinding from low stakes to high rollers. You can catch some cheaters even if you dont play the game but you will be a lot more effective if you grind and you know what to look
I remember i randomly saw a ukrainian reg using h2n in his twitch but i think it malfuctioned. You couldnt see the hud at all but you saw the popup in a split second. I was in the middle of grinding and the only reason i visited his twitch was to see what hand he had in a spot he played. I went back to see his video after my grinding ended, but the stream was deleted. I am pretty sure gg caught up with this hence their decision to forbid any tracker open. Another time i watched someone streaming playing something 20$ mtts and after a few hours i saw another person grinding from the same account. I think they understood their mistake because they kept streaming without camera and they deleted their stream
I personally cant bother anymore, if i think someone is cheating and i am in a good mood i report him, if i am not i dont even bother. Online came to a point where is full of cheaters, yet still profitable. Just bite your teeth with the extra variance and grind through it
I doubt 99.9% of players on GG even know Fedor is the security and integrity ambassador. They just see his face on the adverts on the home screen, the same as DN and Elky.
Isn't the only reason Jason Koon left the security and integrity position because he got dropped off the GG brand ambassador line-up?
Theres no way to know for sure the reasoning because there was no statement from GG. Jason's personal statement was just very short and professional and didnt include any reasoning. But the timing - close proximity to the MoneyTaker69 fiasco - makes it likely that the way GG handled it and dealt with it internally and publically had something to do with Koon stepping down. When he hasnt said aynything about it at this point that means hes very likely under NDA and wouldnt be allowed to talk negatively about GG so we will never know.
You're deluded if you think most people wouldn't snap up the chance to get likely 6 figures, for wearing a patch and putting out a few tweets a year.
Theres a lot of dickwads who would throw their community and profession under the bus for the chance to get likely 6 figures indeed. Sounds like you would jump at a similar opportunity. Fedor being a "security and integrity" (lmao) ambassador for GG is akin to a Grandmaster chess player signing up to be the "integrity ambassador" for some random chess site that offers online big prize pool tournaments but has 0 measures to ban engine players.
So I'm not allowed to have PT4 opened while playing on GG now?
maybe one of you guys has a live twitter account, cause my is dead and we don't use twitter a lot in russian poker community
The fact is that in the russian community the news has already spread very widely, but in the English-speaking community it has spread much less than we would like. At the same time, it is understandably impossible to influence the management of the GG through the Russian-speaking community.
Here is tweet, just repost it, or at least post link to this thread, please
