1/2 3bet and basically whiff vs. bad players

Pretty wild to be in a 1/2 game that has a $10 straddle and people are buying in around $200. Basically youre playing 20bb deep so people are going to be all in constantly.

I dont think I'd raise here preflop w KJss, rather just call the $10 with a hand that is good multiway when there are already 4 callers ahead of you plus straddle left to act. If you do raise its probably better to just jam for real fold equity because theres no stack depth available to play post flop anyway and theres already 50 in the pot.

We cant cbet this gutshot when they conceivably have every ace and might call off with every Qx too considering how much is in the pot and they have hardly anything left. If i had KJcc i would just jam though.

jamming pre has to be the best play here

as played check flop

The straddle was only occasionally -- it's normally just 1/2.

FWIW: Knowing V1 will call w/ almost any two cards and the rest are most likely folding is why I made it $75 -- could have gone $100, but shoving seems like overkill, and V1 would fold his 23s, etc., if I shove. I was surprised by V2's flat pre.

Don't like the raise preflop knowing we won't get folds and the SPR will be tiny ... would much rather limp this and shove A9o or something.

On the flop I hate shoving least, I guess.

So, you don't like targeting someone who will call $75 w/ 23s or QTo (HH I posted) expecting everyone else to fold? (Remember, I was surprised by V2's call -- btw, he was last to act pre, although the call was still surprising. I mean, who calls there with $100 left? LOL.)

Think I check back here. V1 is too loose to fold his draws, V2 is probably too strong here to fold Ax or Qx.

i think shove pre is probably best theres like 50 dead when it gets to you? your hand just isn't that good that you want to trap people into seeing the flop with you. i guess bet now

i think its also a mistake to look at this hh as a 3b pot

sorry but theres no way that putting in 1/3 of your stack and then playing fit or fold is better than collecting $50 in dead money. just shove pre or limp, with shoving much preferred. this is like a tournament ICM spot. like over 90% of the time everyone is going to fold to your shove. maybe 2% or less someone is trapping with AA, and maybe 5% someone calls you with a small or medium pair which is fine. i gaurantee you that your hand isnt worth close to $50 in EV so getting that is huge.

Raise is fine pf. A lot of V2's range is Ax after a raise. If he has any sense at all, he'll know set mining with small pairs is -EV and would have folded them. You're there, so if you think he'd call a 65 raise with only 100 behind with 33, then making a bet is OK. Otherwise, I'd just check fold.

i mean him limp calling anything like this is -ev at least compared to alternatives lol. idk why would you would discount pairs and decide he has majority ax

Awkward spot. Think check is good.

$75 a bit large pre-flop. $50 feels quite nice, and gives us more wiggle room post.

Just KJs has a lot more plability, so if we want a limping range then I'd much rather limp KJs and shove A9o ... but if you want to shove or fold everything, I'm down with that too.

Here you go again assuming everybody's just always gonna donk into the pfr when they hit the flop. You must play at some of the weirdest tables. Also, I've never seen anyone this confident that their hand is good with K high on an A high flop with this SPR… betting for value no less.

I was totally good against V1, who I was targeting. And, yes, he would have donked into me w/ any A, a big draw, etc. I know my player pool. I stacked him three times that night (twice in NLHE, once in a double-board PLO bomb pot).

V2 surprised me all the way, which I admitted.

This is live poker vs. guys I play with twice a week. I know them very well. I try to give good reads. I think live reads are underrated on 2+2, but in future I'll try to post more straightforward hands. I just need to find a table full of 2+2 posters. LOL.

I assume you have position as your post didn't make that clear.

I'd check. There is about a 56% chance one of them has an ace and isn't folding. The check is ONLY because one player is short. If both have large stacks I would bet small like 35-45% if you can get away with it without a XR which is a pretty standard bet multiway. if called it is VERY likely you are facing an ace (56%) and they arent folding. They just called $75 preflop so their range is stronger. Take the free card and hope to hit. But the small bet is targeting the range that is beating you on the flop but you want to fold like 8x, 55, 77

Interesting outcome.

Unless I missed it, your read on V2 didn't include whether or not he donks flops for value. Describing him as "pretty passive" makes me think he'd be more likely to check-call than donk-lead. Your description of him, and the pre-flop action, would make me think he could have enough AX here to not fold to your flop c-bet.

Your read on V1 is that he bets/raises for value and chases his draws. Again, not sure if that means he donks flops for value, or if he would prefer to check-raise. Also not sure if he'll chase his draws when he's OOP to two opponents, one of whom is V2, who V1 might intuitively see as a sand-bagger.

Betting 40% pot, hoping to draw V1 in, but fold V2 out, seems a bit...I dunno, ambitious? Fancy? Too specific? If V1 calls, V2 will be getting 4.5 to 1 odds to put the rest of his stack in. Getting those odds, V2 could call off with 8x. If that happens, V1 will be in a good spot to jam his last $200 into $550 on the turn.

Even if V1 folds, V2 is still getting 3.5 to 1 on his call. Against the most aggro, bluff-prone player in the game, he's almost getting good enough odds to call off with any Qx.

To be fair, V2 didn't mis-play it. He checked to you, the PFR, and got his money in good when you c-bet enough to put him all in. You got lucky to catch a four-outer on the turn.

Yes, I have position (CO). Our positions are in the OP.

One interesting point I wish I had thought of is if I had checked, I might have gotten $$$ from V1, and V2 would have realized his mistake instead of blaming me on getting lucky 😉 However, I thought I would take it down right there or get V1 to draw w/ a gutshot or similar. I think V2 made a mistake by limping pre for $75 w/ $106 behind. Checking the flop seemed to be a mistake because I could easily check there (all of you would have), and it is a fairly drawy board, but maybe he knew he was putting it in whenever and just hoping I bet (like a typical passive player).

Nobody has mentioned the HH w/ V1, either. I almost posted that hand. I'm sure I would have gotten flamed. These are the hands I tend to remember, though, so I post them occasionally. The rest are pretty boring and straightforward, but I'll try to remember a few of those in future.

I'm not sure, 4bet AJ for value pre. and stack off blocking draws is pretty std. 👀

Not in this forum 😉

You keep saying this. Targeting generally means something observable like a particular villain limps and you iso. Here there are five villains in for 5bb pre and two on the flop with SPR<1. How are you targeting V1 exactly, with your feelings? I'm sure your reads are great but if you're going to use them to just arbitrarily only pay attention to one guy in a hand there's a good chance you'll keep walking into somebody else.

I was targeting V1 pre. My raise was big enough to let V1 call w/ all of his holdings and to get most of the other players to fold. If any other players had called/raised, I would have been very cautious. I would have folded pre to a 3bet (4bet? is a straddle a raise?) from any of them, but it's so unlikely.

As I stated, I was surprised V2 called, but he had only $106 left and didn't bet flop. Even though he's passive, I thought he would bet that flop with an A and his last $106. Maybe he was correctly waiting for me to bet -- he was right, and I got lucky.

It is results oriented, but the same thing happens on the turn. My only regret is betting the flop, because had I checked, V1 probably would have stabbed at the turn, V2 would have gone all in, and I would have made a little more 😉

I do know these players very well. Not one of the regulars is a decent player, but they do surprise me every once in a while. (FWIW, I've seen V2 walk out a winner once. I'm not sure I've ever seen V1 win.)

I think it’s standard for him to check to the raiser, especially at a small spr, especially on an ace high board. Him checking worked out way better than him donk shoving. I also think fish don’t want to show their hand if they’re crushed.

Not meaning to be crass, but I just don't understand any of this: the need for multi-sentence player takes and HHS, no one has any money you just put it all in with anything that resembles your texture. I have to come back to this forum and read this it's the most tilting thing I have absorbed in nearly 3 months.

You're in a game where some putz has AJ and has to say something after the hand? Cmon now.