LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

He lacks endurance

He lacks quickness and agility to guard guys off screens like Klay (can't defend 2's), and obviously can't move his feet vs 1's like MJ

Lebron is a bulky and often clumsy player that lacks fluidity and this is reflected in his chemistry and teams compared to MJ

He's also a low flyer off 2 legs compared to MJ, who was the goat combo leaper (goat off 1 or 2 legs)

Oh, and baby hands

How does this adjust for Drtg is? Do you even know DRtg is? Again, there's not a lot of value in chucking up shots at low efficiency. We already know Lebron has higher TS+, TS Add (peak & cumulative). Were you an inefficient chucker too?

You got the years wrong probably because of your cognitive limitations. MJ had 5 seasons where this was the case. His TS Add these 5 seasons (age in parens):

172.3 (32)
132.8 (33)
42.5 (34)
-155.2 (38)
-94.2 (39)

Lebron TS Add during 5 such seasons

-95.3 (19)
95.7 (20)
141.6 (21)
42.6 (22)
109.3 (23)

And let's keep this in mind, we're comparing pre-peak Lebron to MJ during his second three-peat.

What are MJ's physical limitations compared to Lebron?

You think the problem with this argument is that it's simple? You claim that you have some kind of special analytical ability and you don't instantly see what's wrong with this argument? I mean, do I need to spell this out for you? Either your claims are bogus or you've clearly suffered some serious decline that makes you cognitively challenged. Which one is it?

At this point, there really isn't anything to see here unless you're morbidly curious about psychopathology like I am.

The funny thing is that the reality is the exact opposite - MJ was a notorious ball hog before Phil Jackson took over (and became a notorious ball hog once again with the Wizards) and often butted heads with teammates over his tendency to dominate possessions and usage.

On the other hand, Lebron's literally played every single offensive role on-ball and off-ball and fit into just about every single scheme in the modern game and made it work. All his past teammates have literally nothing to say about him in this regard other than that Lebron is like a supercomputer that makes the best play every time. It's not like Lebron's played like Luka or Harden under D'Antoni - Lebron is an exceptional off-ball player (probably better than MJ) that's thrived with many different types of primary ball-handlers.

Then again, twog is probably too broken to watch basketball, so he probably has no idea how Lebron plays basketball. This is peak twog:

Twog, if you're still here, curious if you realize how pathetic this all sounds?

Damn, you know I made a good post when you've been triggered to write a bunch of new posts insulting LeBron in strange ways.

"Baby hands" huh? What the hell is even that? We know Jordan has freakishly large hands, but you sound a bit obsessed the way you talk about their hands. Do you wish to be touched by Jordan's unusually large hands, perhaps fantasize about being caressed (or fingered) by them? It all sounds kinda weird and freaky imo.

Do you have a life bro? The fact that not everyone agrees that your hero is the GOAT of basketball seems deeply troubling for you on an existential level. Like it's legitimately causing you personal pain and anguish if people don't agree with Jordan being the GOAT. It's not that serious bro.

lol I gotta do something with this and AI generation. Christ that's funny 😆

Although I think the guy who took this to fingering by Jordan *might* be the freaky one, lol

jordan would put up 60/15/15/10/10 per game today

lol regular season bulk $tat$ in this era

This post made fallguy have a meltdown.

Actually the opposite, there is no other NBA athlete in the history of the game that had more endurance and stamina as Bran.

Still painful 11 years later.

This is nostalgia talking.

Bran is probably the greatest game 7 performer in playoff history.

I'm taking the guy I never saw lose a finals. Just feels right. If he doesn't get bored of being so good (and try baseball), I'm not even sure he wouldn't have won 6 in a row.

yeah mj wasn't much of a game 7 player (rang'd 6/6 in 6 games or less)

You brought up game 7s. Here are the numbers in game 7 playoffs.

For game 6 (also important)

LeBron James has averaged 29.0 points, 9.8 rebounds and 7.9 assists in 24 games in game sixes in his career.

Michael Jordan averaged 31.3 points, 6.3 assists and 6.2 rebounds in 13 games in game sixes in his career.

I'm taking Bran.

If you want to break down the game further within the lines. I'm still taking Bran.

Bill Russell went 11-1 in the finals, is 6-0>11-1 because Russell lost 1 time in the finals?

LeBron, Yup only 2 season 82 games .
Only 55 games on average the last 6 ! (33% misses games)
65 games on average the least 13 years ! (20% missed games)

Freakn joke …
Real longevity Kareem 78 games played throughout his entire career …(5% missed games)
Jordan 77 games even counting his season with 18 games and 17 games included as full season …

Lebron and this era weak sauce .
Imagine how on fire Jordan would be by missing 20% of games per season ….

i'll take the guy who's in da club during game 7 because he already shipped in 6 over the check my $tat$ loser

Jordan retired twice because of mental fatigue.

Give it a rest.

Bran has more endurance and stamina than Jordan, end of story.

Okay so we established Jordan's superior raw scoring numbers regardless of conditions/environment, and now your TS argument falls down because of the following reasons, in order of importance:

1) Shooting efficiency falls under the umbrella of efficiency per possession (ortg), where Jordan's was higher due to goat IQ (all-time low turnover rate) - the most significant factor is that Jordan's efficiency per possession was higher despite using more possessions (the most ever).. Accordingly, history shows that by using the most possessions ever at superior efficiency, it's possible to control a ball game better than anyone ever has (6/6) and lead the only dynasty that wasn't a "super-team" of all-stars and franchise players.

2) TS is correlated with brand of ball such as a drive-heavy rim attack, aka drive-and-kick "smashmouth" brand of ball versus a zippy ball movement brand and superior chemistry that requires more jumpshooting from the star.. The former brand (smashmouth) has the top 3 record losses in Finals history (14', 17', 18'), while the latter is 6-0 without needing a Game 7.. In other words, TS isn't a great argument..

3)) TS is correlated with the amount of defensive attention that a player faced, and MJ faced far more by virtue of Krause's roster that forced MJ to carry the scoring load, aka defeat max defensive attention - this negatively-impacts TS yet Jordan still was still within 2 points of Lebron in TS despite the night-and-day difference in defensive attention and scoring burden, as well as the aforementioned chemistry and brand of ball requirements of the team (more jumpshooting required).

4) Many people have better TS than Lebron, so TS is a weaker argument than Jordan's PPG, goat usage-level of possessions coupled with the best efficiency on those possessions (ortg), and goat scoring burden (carrying scoring load, aka defeating max defensive attention), or his goat 2-way arguments, or his goat clutch arguments, or his goat skill arguments (goat 2-point jumpshooter).

5) The TS margins above league-average are influenced by today's top-heavy league (3-and-D robot role players vs the stars/skilled players) as opposed to a more balanced level of good/great players in previous eras where it was harder to achieve TS advantage over peers.. Everyone shot like crap against packed paints and zero spacing, whereas today's stars have more ways to find advantages over their peers in a spaced-out, hands-off beginner format, and benefit more from this easier format than roles players, of which there are more in today's game (3-and-D) - large swathes of today's players are homogenized in the current spacing format (3-and-D) compared to the more intricate roles required of each individual in the no-spacing eras.

All those words and you still haven't addressed the core question - were you an inefficient chucker too? What was your PPG in college? You were so eager to share those personal details earlier when you were bragging about your credentials. Why so shy now?

It wasn't so much hoops ability but the combination of that with other experiences and skills that fostered better understanding of the game

But ultimately, we're talking about Lebron here and there are 3 instances where we could've replaced him with you or me and it would've been the same result - record loss.. See the 14', 17' and 18' Finals - the 3 biggest losses in Finals history (bran-ball same as candybar-ball)

This is completely wrong. I'll leave it as an exercise for others as to what Montrealcorp did (because he is who he is) and why that's wrong in a hilarious way.

FWIW, Lebron missed 9.1 games per season on average, MJ 10.5. And that's despite playing 20 seasons to MJ's 15 and Lebron spending the tail end of his career in the fast-paced load management era. Their MPG is also almost identical, again, despite the fact that MPG for top players has trended down and Lebron spent far more of his career (due to not retiring multiple times) at an age where his MPG would have to be managed.

Is it really that embarrassing?

MJ is a couple of inches shorter than Lebron?