2/3 whale wars

Gold pf

Don’t love the flop x/r with overcard air and no fold equity.

Now that you have, and turned top pair, I’d check/shove the turn for maximum escalation dominance.

Just jam now you have a little over a psb. He flatted you so I'm not really worried about 2 pair

I don't like JT open from EP when you know he's going to raise and others probably know the same thing.

Why raise the flop w/ nothing? Now that you hit, check/raise again or check/call. Or, bet and go with it.

Why are you engaging in whale war without a premium?

@Javanewt, @OmahaDonk
Huh? JTs is a std gto open from EP. So ofc it's an open in this setting.
As for postflop; way too wide to be checkraising vs someone supposedly without a fold button. Just cbet instead with overs and backdoor or check and give up the hand, nothing wrong threeway. Against these type of players we don't go fancyplay syndrome. It's just about hitting, trapping and laughing all the way to the bank.

Is it a standard open when you’re getting 3b every time? I would rather play a raise / 4b strategy with hands that make top pair or overpair.

Villain is auto-3betting with any two. 🍰 It's not your avarage situation when you feel people behind you are bullying you, and you need to cut off some hands from your opening range. JTs should nevertheless be an open in the last scenario imo.

Knowing he's gonna raise us (assuming we know he goes 3x) I don't mind being hu with him with a hand that dominates his range. When we miss I don't mind playing alil creative (but I prefer to do it if we're deeper because when they see there's a lot more money at stake it boosts our FE up my miles I can assure you) and we still probably dominate him too (not that we're raising for value or any thing) and if he calls we can jam any heart ten or jack. This hand however is more of a dick measuring contest than anything else.

If he's auto-3B'ing every time we open, we should probably have a counter-strategy that makes more sense than just opening our usual range and c-bet-folding or check-raising with air.

If he's 3B'ing when we open, is he raising when we limp? If so, let's develop a polarized limp-3B range. Let's also polarize our opening range to open-fold and open-4B.

I don't hate the x/r with JThh here. We've got two overs, a BDFD and a BDSD, but no showdown value. Seems like a good bluff x/r candidate to me.

Once he calls, and we make top pair, I think we can slow down and take a check-call bluff-catcher line. No sense in continuing to bluff with top pair when he's likely to happily do the betting for us.

If he's gonna put his balls on the table, let's get out the cutlery.

Stack off by betting you have the nuts, next hand please.

Imagine not playing every hand, as if this sort of opportunity were commonplace. Christ.

Man, unless this would deter him from continuing down this path, id be 4 betting basically my entire raising range, but ESPECIALLY with a fish cold calling it.

Also in this situation, i would treat the hand as if i raised to $30 and he called with his entire range, dont give him the benefit of initiative, because initiative is representative of a stronger range. Id just check call the flop, and id probably keep calling down from there once i hit.

Wow, are you sure you should have come back? LOL.

As to opening JTs from EP, that is not a normal opening hand from EP for me. Not sure it should be for anyone in all situations. We also don't know what people behind us are like. I'm more than happy to limp with it and see what happens vs. this guy.

He's back!!!

id check turn or bet tiny now.

re pre, id start 4betting and 4b jamming very very liberally. like i think its fine to jam here pre lol

What an awesome game to be in.

Knowing that its going to be 30 preflop im just folding JT.

Why are we check raising flop with no fold equity? Id just check call with the backdoors and call down once we hit top pair.

My reasoning for liking the x/r on the flop...

OP's description makes the guy out to be a pre-flop maniac. But how maniacal is he post-flop, as situations get more complex?

Getting into a pre-flop raising war with this V is going to create insane variance. I'd rather out-play him post-flop. Once we get to this flop with JThh, I think this is a good spot to use controlled aggression.

How we play this guy post-flop is going to depend on how he plays post-flop. If he's a three-barrel Harold, we'll have to bluff-catch more with a stronger range. If he's the type to 3B pre, and c-bet 100, but give up if he gets called or we play back, then we'll have to play back sometimes with hands like JThh on flops like this.

He's extremely unlikely to have much going on with this board. We could have some sets here with 77/44, plus some decent draws like 65s.

Even if he has a big pocket pair, or connects with this flop in some way, he'll have a hard time knowing how he should respond to our x/r, and he'll almost never put us on a hand like JThh. If V 3B's over our flop x/r, we're not folding away a ton of equity.

If V wants to slow play by just flatting our x/r, that's fine. If we check to him again on the turn, he might check back, allowing us to realize our equity by getting to the river cheaply. If he wants to bet huge on turn, let him. We have fold when we miss, or we can call when we hit. We might make 2P or trips on the river, but if not, and we check again, he'll probably just check back with most of his range, and our pair of J's will be good a lot.

V probably isn't folding any of his over-pairs to the board, but we'd prefer he fold out all his un-paired over-cards with decent equity against our hand that he'd probably be c-betting at a high frequency, like AJ, AT, KJ, KT, QJ, or QT, assuming those are all in his pre-flop 3B'ing range (and why wouldn't they be, if he's auto-3B'ing?). We don't want to flat call his c-bet here, and then make a dominated top pair against this guy.

If he calls with an over-pair, we can pick up equity with any heart, 8, 9, T or J. If we go runner-runner to make a straight, we can double up. We'd prefer the nut straight over the 4th nut flush, but beggars can't be choosers when we're calling 3B's pre with JTs.

When we hit top pair, it would be awesome if this guy is 3B'ing us pre with any SC or AX hand (like A7s) that connects with the flop, and wants to get sticky with his worse 1P.

I almost wish the turn were a blank -- would be an even more interesting conversation. Still interesting, though.

What happened next? (I guess it hasn't been 24 hours, so I'll wait unless there is another street 😉 )

2/3 e450
Hero ep JhTh open 10.
Mp whale 30.
Sb fish Cold calls
Hero calls
3 ways
(93) flop 7h4d2s
X x whale bets 35. Sb f. Hero XR 90. Whale calls.
(270) turn Jd
x x
(270) River 7c
Hero?

Check to V. Let him bluff. Snap him off.

Really no point in betting. V isn't likely to have anything more than ace-high here, and isn't likely to hero call us, but he might bluff. Worse case, he gets to see we out-played him with JT, and he goes on instant monkey tilt.

I mean, i thought we all agreed that the goal is to get in stacks, it was just a question of if the best way to do that is to bet or to check/call haha.

If anyone was considering a fold in any circumstance here, they are insane

So, you hit a great card on the turn after check/raising the flop and you check? Not sure I understand that. River I can go either check/call or bet/call, but the 7 kind of sucks for us and/or for him, so check/call.