I get this feeling I can't be Christian and play poker at the same time

I get this feeling I can't be Christian and play poker at the same time

I just see rake and skill being the last of your worries... I haven't got it in behind on party in a year it seems, and i'm 2k down in tournaments. Like, I run like a god when it comes to coolers in tournaments. I never get coolered, but i also barely ever cooler anybody. I got it in 70-30 at worse at PLO on GG for a year and i'm -2800. I don't know when my edge will matter. Will it ever? I literally need to play poker to escape this malpractice 12 years destroyed ****.. because i had my 25-35 years stolen, and i got no options except hoping never getting coolered will be positive in tournaments at some point.

23 May 2021 at 01:53 AM
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The original OP sounds like a kid who lives as a victim and just wanted some forum strangers to validate him.

Par for the course these days.


If OP is really saying he thinks he is running bad because God is punishing him for playing poker, that makes no sense even if we grant that God actually exists and that he actually cares whether we play poker or not. OP is running bad, hence he is losing. Since OP is losing, someone else must be winning as a result. Since that person is winning, by OPs logic, Gis must be rewarding him for playing poker. Why would God punish some people and reward others for the very same behavior?

Of course it’s all much easier to understand if we just realize that it’s all just randomness and has nothing whatsoever to do with any deity.


I'm a Christian and I sort of don't know what to think about poker. People can get into trouble with it, but what can you do if you just want to play? You can play for play money, but wagering real money is kind of an aspect of it. If anyone thinks it's a sin I wouldn't mind hearing your reasoning.


Some speculation on this topic:

Christianity morality is based on "Love thy neighbor" and some other principles so,

1)If a person cheated at poker, it would be a sin
2)Intentionally playing with someone who you know is temporarily mentally impaired from substance abuse and who you know is playing at stakes way over his net worth might be a Christian sin
3)Making poker a greater priority to yourself (spending too much time on it) than taking care of your family members might be a Christian sin
4)Borrowing money for poker that you have no real intention to pay back anytime soon or knowingly have no firm way to pay back soon might be a sin

What's probably not a sin?
1) playing recreationally for small stakes in small doses . Recreation is fine at a small cost.
2) playing professionally for profit by treating it as a serious business venture.


by Pokerlogist k

Some speculation on this topic:
2) playing professionally for profit by treating it as a serious business venture.

Playing poker professionally is most definitely a sinful life. All professional gambling (player and commercial side) is extraordinarily evil.

And Jesus said to them, “It is written:

‘My house shall be a house of prayer,’

but you are making it a den of thieves.”

The only time Jesus became violently angry was when the money changers were using the Temple for profit. Considering the human body is the real temple, how much more punishment will the person face who uses his life to hustle money out of others?

We are called to build each other up, not think we are smarter or better than other people to try and hustle them out of their money.

I had to repent.


by Jehova-Jireh k

Playing poker professionally is most definitely a sinful life. All professional gambling (player and commercial side) is extraordinarily evil.

The only time Jesus became violently angry was when the money changers were using the Temple for profit. Considering the human body is the real temple, how much more punishment will the person face who uses his life to hustle money out of others?

We are called to build each other up, not think we are smarter or better than other people to try and hustle the

Let's hear the reason why it is okay, even holy and righteous, to kill every child and fetus on earth ... yet immoral to win money.


That's what I thought.


by FellaGaga-52 k

Let's hear the reason why it is okay, even holy and righteous, to kill every child and fetus on earth ... yet immoral to win money.

I'll try. We're born in a fallen state due to Adam's sin, so even children sin all the time (possibly even fetuses too - they kick in the womb, just saying). The state of mankind was that every inclination of the human heart was evil, so I guess it would be the case that children were this way too. God regretted making man and so killed everyone save a few. From God's perspective things might have only gotten worse for the children, they definitely would have gone to heaven if he killed them, and he hated how things were enough to do it in the first place so yeah, I see what he did as holy and righteous. He hates sin. Winning money puts other people in a bad situation for your own gain, seems immoral to me. I guess there might be an exception, like when two people fully understand the consequences and communicate this to each other and do it anyways, but even then, the outcome is the same, it might still be immoral.


Sorry, but if a newborn (or an unborn) baby is so sinful that it’s okay to kill him or her, why is it immoral to exploit an adult, who is consenting to risk his money, for financial gain? Is your poker opponent not also a sinner? Doesn’t he have his loss coming to him for his sin. Seems like a lesser punishment for that sin than killing children, no?


by stremba70 k

Sorry, but if a newborn (or an unborn) baby is so sinful that it’s okay to kill him or her, why is it immoral to exploit an adult, who is consenting to risk his money, for financial gain? Is your poker opponent not also a sinner? Doesn’t he have his loss coming to him for his sin. Seems like a lesser punishment for that sin than killing children, no?

I don't understand your reasoning. Exploiting someone is wrong.


by walkby k

I'll try. We're born in a fallen state due to Adam's sin, so even children sin all the time (possibly even fetuses too - they kick in the womb, just saying). The state of mankind was that every inclination of the human heart was evil, so I guess it would be the case that children were this way too. God regretted making man and so killed everyone save a few. From God's perspective things might have only gotten worse for the children, they definitely would have gone to heaven if he killed them, an

What are you gonna do when someone is just all-in on a blatant fairy tale? A fetus kicking in the womb is against the will of god, a sin, a transgression of the divine will. As to the intent of that fetus -- a necessity for sin -- well, I guess that's just that evil nature. Never mind that it can't develop without moving and kicking, and stillness is a sure sign of trouble, because we aren't worried about science, we are worried about wives tales of religion. God hates sin while loving the sinner ... so he kills them. Likewise, if we are loving like him, we kill those we love in the name of righteous, holy vengeance when they do wrong because we just can't stand it ... right?

Every business is competitively taking money from others.

When we are running our moral paradigm through a magical fantasy of ancient superstitious peoples, we run into a lot of trouble with simple reality.


Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. This is a rational, well reasoned, morally righteous idea.

Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. I believe that because it is in an ancient book.
Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. I believe that because it is in an ancient book.
Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. I believe that because it is in an ancient book.
Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. I believe that because it is in an ancient book.
Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. I believe that because it is in an ancient book.
Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. I believe that because it is in an ancient book.
Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. I believe that because it is in an ancient book.
Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. I believe that because it is in an ancient book.
Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. I believe that because it is in an ancient book.
Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. I believe that because it is in an ancient book.

Amen.


by FellaGaga-52 k

What are you gonna do when someone is just all-in on a blatant fairy tale? A fetus kicking in the womb is against the will of god, a sin, a transgression of the divine will. As to the intent of that fetus -- a necessity for sin -- well, I guess that's just that evil nature. Never mind that it can't develop without moving and kicking, and stillness is a sure sign of trouble, because we aren't worried about science, we are worried about wives tales of religion. God hates sin while loving the sinne

God isn't a man. If he has reason to kill someone he can do it. It doesn't detract from him being holy or righteous, it actually shows that he is. According to the Bible we're not the way we're supposed to be and I think it's reasonable to think we're continuously doing things we shouldn't. God didn't get what he wanted in a sense because of Adam's fall and if someone is continuously going down the wrong path I think it's hard to argue that God is not within his right to kill someone if he truly doesn't like what's going on. He almost killed Moses for not doing something if I recall correctly. The way I reason it out is that we're truly that despicable to him compared to what he actually wanted, so yeah, if enough happens he can go, "you're out". He wants what is best for us obviously, but we're not really capable of going in that direction at all. The Bible says that there is not one person who does good. Paul wrote what if God desiring to show his wrath endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction so that he could make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy? There were angels in the beginning that rebelled because that's what they wanted to do knowing everything they knew about how loving God is and what life was like, they literally could not have done anything else though, because that's what they wanted to do, the same goes for us, except we are tilted in the direction of sin, we literally can't do anything else, because it's what we want to do. It's not what God wanted though, so even though we can't do anything else he still hates it, so yeah, if he wants to he can kill us and it wouldn't be wrong. We are not the same.

Most businesses are probably wrong for how they gouge customers to make as much money as possible.

I have no idea if fetuses sin, I was just throwing that out there. I don't think you need intent to sin. You could obliviously do something that's wrong, you still did something that's wrong though.


by FellaGaga-52 k

Eating a fruit in the garden brought down the entire species. This is a rational, well reasoned, morally righteous idea.

I have no problem believing what I believe. I've had a lot of experiences that lead me to believe in Jesus and I have no problem accepting the rest of the Bible. There's nothing evident in history or anything I've read that would give me reason to believe it's not true. Just lots of seeming grey areas where things can be inserted but nothing contradicts the Bible in an incontrovertible way, whether it be a supposed old earth, abiogenesis, evolution, or etc. My Biblical worldview remains and these things seem like theories to me.


by walkby k

I don't understand your reasoning. Exploiting someone is wrong.

Yes, but so is killing someone. Yet you justified killing people because people are inherently sinful. So it’s ok to kill someone, but it’s a no-no to financially exploit them?


by stremba70 k

Yes, but so is killing someone. Yet you justified killing people because people are inherently sinful. So it’s ok to kill someone, but it’s a no-no to financially exploit them?

It's wrong to financially exploit someone and it's also wrong to kill someone, yes. God is God though and can kill someone if he wants to, our souls belong to him. If he has reason to kill someone he can do that. He is the moral arbiter so if he think something is wrong enough he can take action. I guess you either believe that or you don't, I don't think it's worth debating.


So how do you know that God isn’t using you to punish your opponent for his sins by allowing you to take his money?


by stremba70 k

So how do you know that God isn’t using you to punish your opponent for his sins by allowing you to take his money?

I'm probably going to quit poker because I think it might be a sin, but God might do this with things all the time.

Isaiah 45:7
King James Version
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

I think it might still be a sin even if God used a person playing poker to punish someone else.

God used a lying spirit to get something done that he wanted done. My guess is that the spirit was going to do it anyways and was trying to bring an accusation against God too, but God knew the spirit was set on doing it so was like "go ahead". God is definitely loving, he tolerates a lot (even tolerates a fallen angel doing something like this), but only tolerates things up to a certain point. I sort of said this before but things are not the way they're supposed to be. God is probably as loving as you would expect him to be and everything else, You would probably not be surprised by him, but he's pretty much in the room with you every day of your life, eventually he might just simply want you dead and to have you thrown forever into a lake of fire. That's literally what we're like to him. He loves us though, so he sent his son to die in our place to take our punishment for us and that sacrifice covers us if we believe in him.

1 Kings 22:19-23
King James Version
19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
20 And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.


Sometimes the defense is worse than just silence. In my opinion -- regardless of whether one is religious -- is isn't moral to kill every child and fetus on earth, genocide isn't moral, bigotry isn't moral, misogyny isn't moral ... no matter who does it or claims it is. We arrive at this conclusion by thinking for ourselves instead of miming some religious drivel from thousands of years ago written by purely superstitious zealots.


by FellaGaga-52 k

Sometimes the defense is worse than just silence. In my opinion -- regardless of whether one is religious -- is isn't moral to kill every child and fetus on earth, genocide isn't moral, bigotry isn't moral, misogyny isn't moral ... no matter who does it or claims it is. We arrive at this conclusion by thinking for ourselves instead of miming some religious drivel from thousands of years ago written by purely superstitious zealots.

We try to kill every bacteria in our mouth on a daily basis because it interferes with our health, man became so evil that it's every thought of the heart was evil, so God wiped it all out except for the few that weren't. Why is one immoral to you and the other not? God made us and regretted making us and ostensibly even the babies and fetuses would turn out the same way, why couldn't he just kill everyone if he wanted to? The babies and children even went to heaven where they would not be in that condition any longer and would be saved from growing up and inevitably receiving eternal punishment for continuing the way their parents did. God only commanded killing of peoples when they were in similar conditions, why is it immoral for him to do so? I don't know what you mean by bigotry and misogyny.


by walkby k

We try to kill every bacteria in our mouth on a daily basis because it interferes with our health, man became so evil that it's every thought of the heart was evil, so God wiped it all out except for the few that weren't. Why is one immoral to you and the other not? God made us and regretted making us and ostensibly even the babies and fetuses would turn out the same way, why couldn't he just kill everyone if he wanted to? The babies and children even went to heaven where they would not be in th

Seems you are equating the killing of bacteria with the killing of human children. Nice religion. So, tomorrow it is the same for you to kill a bacterium or kill a child?

Isn't it funny that the only 8 moral people on earth were in the same place and in the same family?

Have you read the Bible (most Christians watch television a thousand times for every one they open the Bible). Anyway, it is/was for killing homosexuals, killing "other" races, the subjugation and abuse of women, enslaving of "other" peoples. Have you no idea what bigotry and misogyny are? These ideas are part and parcel of the culture in which the Bible was inspired, and, isn't that odd, their god is the same way.

But let's be clear per your example: killing a bacterium and killing a child are tantamount to the same thing?

I give you lots of credit for candid discussion, but the implications of the defenses of these doctrines, are horrible. AND THEIR ORIGIN IS IN IGNORANT, SUPERSTITIOUS, PRIMITIVE, BARBARIC, MAGIC BELIEVING, RELIGIOUS ZEALOTRY TIMES AND CULTURES.


by FellaGaga-52 k

Seems you are equating the killing of bacteria with the killing of human children. Nice religion. So, tomorrow it is the same for you to kill a bacterium or kill a child?

Isn't it funny that the only 8 moral people on earth were in the same place and in the same family?

Have you read the Bible (most Christians watch television a thousand times for every one they open the Bible). Anyway, it is/was for killing homosexuals, killing "other" races, the subjugation and abuse of women, enslaving of "o

I already wrote what I wrote, I'm not going to bother remaking the same point. I see no problem with God killing evil people if that's what he wants to do. It's obviously wrong for a human being to go around killing people though. I'm familiar with maybe some of the things you're referring to, I see no problem with any of it, but I'm only vaguely familiar with those things. God is holy and righteous. If you view sin differently than him your moral outlook is going to be skewed compared to what is holy and righteous because his standard is what is actually correct. Blasphemy and homosexuality were punishable by death in ancient Israel if I'm not mistaken, along with other things possibly. I don't know what you mean when you're referring to the subjugation and abuse of women. God literally wants you to die and spend an eternity in a lake of fire for committing one sin, but also at the same time sent his own son to take the entire punishment on himself so you don't have to face any of it, that's how holy and loving and righteous he is. Before Christ if I'm not somehow mistaken someone could be saved with some manner of belief, but there were death penalties for sins such as blasphemy and homosexuality. God is holy and righteous though, I see no problem with him wanting to punish people who commit sins that might be more grievous to him than others. It doesn't contradict his holiness or righteousness at all. If you don't view those things as sinful, you're probably going to see a problem with it. I have natural predispositions that I know are wrong that I can chalk up to my sinful nature and whatever predisposed me to those things, but I can't ignore that acting on those predispositions would be wrong. I can empathize with someone who identifies as homosexual because of what I know things are like for me, but it doesn't make it ok to actually go ahead and sin. Some people are more inclined to steal or murder or etc. but it doesn't absolve them of any guilt for actually doing it. There is a standard and we fall short of it fundamentally because of our nature and if my life is any indicator we're all basically walking down this big hallway where we continually do things that are wrong going one thing to the next without giving much a second thought, basically just doing what we want. In retrospect I can see how wrong it all was, but in the moment I was just doing thing after thing. I know what I did was wrong, I believe in Jesus, I'm not going to argue with what I know from the Bible that says homosexuality is wrong. I might not understand it like someone who practices it, but I know enough from my own life when the Bible crosses into something I don't understand that I can trust it. I know though that God desires people to be forgiven and to be saved from his judgment or he wouldn't have sent his son. If you don't believe any of it, you might have a huge problem with it, but I do believe it and have experienced things in my life that lead me to believe that it's true, and I have no problem reconciling any of it with my own morals. This is taking for granted that you probably don't believe the Bible, but if there were no initial rebellion in heaven and no temptation in the garden and everything on earth went as God would have wanted it to it's likely that the whole planet would have been filled with loving families loving communities loving towns loving cities loving countries loving businesses basically everything being as perfect as it could be if how things are now is any model for how things would have gone should things have gone the right way. Imagine walking into a world where basically everything was perfect and loving, I don't think I would fit in at all, but I would probably be in awe of it. I think this is what God wanted. It makes sense to me how much he hates anything that strays from that and is sin. God actually is love, so I can sort of understand why he sees sinful things the way he does. From an intellectual perspective how else would love treat those things? I haven't found any contradiction of God's character from my reading of the Bible. Paul wrote in Ephesians that we are by nature children of wrath, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and the mind, it's not a pretty picture, but I think it's true. The Bible explains the human condition perfectly in that I think, all my flesh and mind wanted me to do were things that I can intellectually identify as wrong. If I tried hard enough I could probably see the slant towards wrong in almost everything I ever did.


Casting pearls before a swine


by 1BigOT k

Casting pearls before a swine

If the swine is the one who says, "Yeah, killing all the children on earth is cool with me because it says so in a legendary book. Bigotry is holy, misogyny is holy, rape is allowed and a black mark against the woman, slavery is allowed, genocide is a good strategy for spreading the word, infectious disease is caused by demons ... etc." It's all in there.

The swine sacrifices their mind, agency and morality to a primitive, barbaric, ignorant tall tale penned by a magic believing superstitious culture of thousands of years ago. It couldn't possibly be more clear that it was not informed by an omniscient god, but simply the morality and understanding of a primitive society. I mean the Bible could have easily said that leprosy is caused by a bacterium, and here is the formula for the antibiotic to cure it. But that is not in there, is it? And the reason just could not be more obvious.

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