LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

You called Steph Curry just a 3-point shooter.

I'm glad Tien screenshotted your posts because that Steph Curry take might actually be worse than your LeBron takes.

That you actually said that about Curry not long ago pretty much proves you don't actually watch basketball, like AT ALL.

Anything you say is disqualifying.

Lebron needed all-star spacing to win 60 games, so he could never win 60 with a bricklayer and lane-clogger like Pippen.

So who cares if he won 66 with Mo when he would barely win 50 with Pippen.

(I say 50 wins because that's what Lebron won in 06' after acquiring a player that was far superior to 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball, while already having the East all-star center, HOF coach and top defenses (in the weakest conference ever).

Lebron lost to Dwight Howard and melted down vs Boston, while MJ three-peated from 91-93' with less scoring options and inferior team defenses then the 06-10' Cavs

You can say this is crazy but the stats and historical record support what I'm saying, while your delusions about Lebron's weak cast aren't supported

Everyone has bad takes but do they have the integrity and character to correct them?

So my takes have integrity by virtue of them not being set in stone or flying in the face of facts, whereas your Lebron takes that he plays 5 positions, carries teams or is a winner have been demolished and fly in the face of facts, yet you still repeat the same lies.. He's a simpleton ball-dominator that is bad at chemistry and mostly loses regardless of cast - that's the historical record

The fact that Curry proved me wrong confirms his goatness, while Lebron never proved me wrong - he continues to have weak underwhelming teams that mostly lose regardless of having the most help in the league and arguably of all-time

I don't watch today's game because it makes me vomit.. The soft, beta and ignorant mindsets of the media and league are repulsive.. The game itself is a beginner format with a bunch of guys that can't really play - this is confirmed when they lose to garbage players in tougher "real basketball" formats of the international game..

So I haven't watched since 2011, yet my predictions are better than anyone's and I have a better handle on what's going on and what will happen with teams or players than literally anyone... again, WITHOUT WATCHING

Ask me about any team or player and my prognosis will be more accurate than literally anyone in the world... Again, without watching.

I can watch guys play for literally 5 seconds and know everything about their game - this is fact - I watch guys like Cade Cunningham before the draft for literally 5 seconds and knew the consensus about him was wrong - I knew every move he liked to do and his style by watching him for 5 seconds - this is the case for every player - I can size them.up and tell.you intricate things about their game, moves abd tendencies by watching them for 5 seconds, or even just seeing them walk... no one in the world has it like that - I'm a hoops savant..

So no I don't watch today's beginner format - why would I and I obviously don't need to in order to know what's going on

The only reason I was wrong about Curry is because I let my biases blind me - I never watched him even for a second and assumed he was just a white 3-point shooter.. But after I paid even a modicum of attention to him (when I heard he had the best team with Wiggins), I quickly realized that he fits my goat criteria as well as anyone.

Sweet things are not good.

*Has piece of cake*

Wow, I was wrong; sweet things are good.

My takes are better than yours now, DUCY?

Right, and not watching basketball has led you to "basketball savant" takes like Steph Curry is just a shooter. Literally 5 minutes of watching Steph Curry would have proved that take wrong.

You're like that garbage reg who has never studied or improved his game because he thinks he's a poker genius, but is always broke and playing $1/3.

This whole dynamic and delusion of grandeur you have is a symptom of peaking in high school.

AbeSimpsonYellsatCloud.jpg

Anyway, probably time for a ban? We’ve ended up with the ‘league and media conspiring for LBJ’ and “I don’t watch the soft modern game but know more about ball than anyone else’’.

Lol I didn't read that, hasn't watched since '11 but much integrity

I really just feel sad for aul lads that pack it in once they’re over ~45 and conclude that everything in the world during their prime years was how it should be forever. Just leaving decades of interesting and engaging experiences on the table, “no thanks”.

When it comes to basketball, it’s a very narrow window of time roughly ~15 years long where super physical defense was allowed a hegemony in the game, pace of possessions dramatically decreased and average scoring rates fell off a cliff. The hubris to think this is the only way the game should be, it’s just a nonsense. Particularly when spacing and 3s is a hugely logical adaptation of strategy, made possible by skill and athleticism improvements.

The 90’s featured back up centres and defensive role players who genuinely couldn’t dribble or shoot a jump shot at a remotely competent level. To conclude ‘that’s the ONLY valid era’ is flat out delusional. At least we know on which side of this conversation the lunatics reside…

Shaq used to force teams to carry unskilled centers whose sole job was to absorb fouls against him. Guys like Chris Dudley.

There were a lot of Chris Dudleys.

Could Lebron develop a 23-year old rookie that averaged 8 ppg into a 60-win team?

Could Lebron win 60 with Pippen?

From Day 1 of Pippen's career, it would be "get in the corner and spot-up"... Imagine telling that to a young bricklayer like Pippen or Giannis - how would they ever develop???.. What examples do we have of Lebron's style growing single-digit rookies into meaningful producers??

When did Lebron and his imposition of spot-up roles ever grow young players?... So how could he grow Pippen, let alone win with him?

Accordingly, Lebron can't grow Pippen, and how would he win with a historic bricklayer like Pippen when his stiff-arm needed all-star spacing to win more than 50 in 09'?

Those guys simply couldn’t exist in the modern game, you couldn’t waste a bench spot on them. Anyone who concludes this is a function of the game being easier or softer is stupid, it’s that simple.

Can any other Jordan stan explain this to me? He hasn't watched the game since 2011, so from 2011-2021 he never watched Curry play yet was able to produce this opinion about Curry without watching Curry for 10 years:

We need fallguy defenders aka Jordan stans in this thread to fall on the sword here and explain this insanity! lmfao

It's the only argument he needs, Tien!

"if Curry had to run off screens" ... !

Wow, it gets better. So many layers to a TWOG post if you care to look.

I was at the park today working out and I heard a guy bouncing the ball approaching.. Without turning and looking, I instantly knew that he was a beginner because of the cadence that the ball was bouncing - too quick and choppy - too many bounces too frequently.. A real baller will have a bunch of steps in between slow bounces, and you might hear the little hesi's on an elite ballhandler.. Based on the timing of the hesi's, you should be able to tell what moves he's doing and the kind of cadence he's using and imagining in his mind... Well, maybe not you... But I can tell these things.

Now if I actually turned to look at him, then everything about his game opens up.. It's like a child prodigy piano player - they just see it in their mind and play.. I would be able to instantly tell everything about his game after 5 seconds of seeing him walk and how he handles the ball.. I would know how to defend him and I would be able to estimate the EXTENT OF HIS BAG... within 5 seconds.

Regarding Curry, I literally haven't watched since 2011 and the last player that I decided to evaluate and consider was Curry.. I had chalked him up to nothing because I didn't respect the 3ball - I still don't and he's literally the ONLY shooter I respect - ONLY curry - he's that good... If you listened to Nick Wright spread his ass cheeks and take a massive dump on Wiggins and then saw Curry turn him into a winner - it should be clear that isn't some random occurrence.. That's a superior achievement than anything Lebron ever did, and that isn't Curry's greatest achievement.

^^^ this is the biggest myth of all

if athletes were increasing materially each year athletically, then by now they would need to raise the rim..

But instead we can look at track and field or other sports and see long-standing records or records being broken by millimeters - the athletic difference is overblown more in basketball than any other sport and 99.9% of the difference can be chalked up to rule changes (being allowed to travel and carry, which allows more athletic plays) and especially modern training/equipment - Dr. J was dunking from the FT line basically barefoot.. There have been scientific studies on this - 99% of the difference can be chalked up to modern equipment and luxuries, while in basketball the carrying and traveling has a tremendous impact on how athletic players look.. And players simply didn't do eastbay dunks (thru the legs) in previous eras, but they would've if they had been practicing that kind of dunking - it's more timing than actual hops (the eastbay dunk)

All of this makes today's players look like they have a much bigger athletic advantage than they actually do and in many cases they might be at a disadvantage.. International players know how to ragdoll our beginner format without athleticism

And regardless, even though Alex English, Kiki Vandeweghe and Bernard King didn't know how to carry and travel like today's players, so their handle looked rudimentary, they were far superior contested shot-makers.. They had the same advantage on 2-pointers that today's players have on 3-pointers.. If we removed the 3-point line, the Clippers from 1990 would demolish the 17' warriors

^^^ essentially, this thread has exposed to major flaws in Lebron's game that confirm his inferiority:

1) His reliance on drives NEEDS SPACING as we saw in 2009 - he can't have an elite regular season record or be MVP-caliber player without spacing.. This is true of most modern ballhandlers and it's one of the reasons today's player wouldn't be as good in prior eras where they wouldn't have teammates spacing the floor for them.

2) Lebron's ball-dominance is a weak brand of ball and proven inferior too many times to count - stat-padding to the extreme at the expense of brand and team ceiling - never a dynasty or perennial Finals favorite - literally never - not capable.

This is really spicy and fun:

From Giannis is absolute trash in 2020 to top 5 player all time in 2021

Giannis was drafted in 2014.

That means fallguy never watched Giannis play basketball, had him as trash in 2020, and top 5 in 2021 without watching him play?

tehehehehheheheh

The 3pt line existed in 90 though, it's one thing to evaluate things differently for teams that played before it, but teams that had the option and choose to shoot shitty 2pt shots instead were just bad at basketball and would get destroyed by modern offenses

interesting post on a day that malachi flynn dropped 50, much to think about

https://twitter.com/clarkkent415/status/...