LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

3 in 5,
12, 13, 16

No one win in 15 with the injuries, and while you say 14, 17, 18 are bad losses no one else thinks that, GS is a favorite vs every team in NBA history and the 18 team is only a little behind thar

hmm, very interesting

Lebron never had a stretch where he mostly won with a cast and mostly lost with every cast that he ever had.. He went 1/4 with AD, or 1/4 with Love and the only exception is the Allen miracle, which allowed 2/4 with Wade.. So it took a miracle for Lebron to not mostly lose with a cast.

After Lebron loses, he changes teams and refreshes his cast with the best young stars in the league - this avoids the aging teammates or rookies that other stars must deal with.. But despite the team changes, the tenures that he has with each cast entails mostly losing, for 2 decades.

I understand that Lebron fans have been told that Jordan had the "perfect situation", but what's the excuse for Curry, Duncan, Kobe, or Kareem having teams that mostly won, while Lebron was incapable of mostly winning for any stretch with a cast, and mostly loses with all casts for 2 decades?.. Btw, even though MJ only won 6 in 15 years (40%), that's the best winning frequency in the history of 3-pointer basketball or since the ABA-merger.

Ultimately, Lebron fans have mind-warped themselves into thinking that it's better to produce weak records and mostly lose every year, so the 1 time you win, it's considered a historic upset.. That's like saying the current Pistons accomplish a goat accomplishment each time they win.. What a backwards way to think about it - t isn't better to lose - it isn't better to produce perennial underdogs that rarely win, than produce perennial favorites that rarely lose.. Producing perennial favorites and having stretches of mostly winning yields superior title equity than a player that mostly loses with any cast.

When MJ first beat the Bad Boys in 1991, Larry Bird led the Bulls in scoring and carried MJ...

oh wait that was actually WADE being the 1st option when Lebron finally got past the Celtics in 2011.

Wade led the Heat in scoring for the ECF, Finals and entire 2011 Playoff run - a 6'4" Jordan with baby hands was 1st option over peak Lebron when he finally got past the Bad Boys, I mean KG's Celtics

This would be such an interesting discussion if it wasn't for the ****ing permanent trolling. Makes this thread so unreadable when it should be great.

AIDS indeed

How dare you.

No one has ever accused me of trolling.

This is the GOAT post people are referring to.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

#19140 itt.

Luka doncic: « hold my beer ».

And for the defensive aspect it’s very debatable.
Mj been the best perimeter defender almost his entire career.
So ok lebron did a little more on rebounding and passing but he certainly never did as much defensively as MJ .
And again players like wilt, Kareem ,etc didn’t even had the right to join the nba younger ….

same lame stuff as all the other labald stan bullshit, 19k posts in lol...

goat post? it's simply a summary of long-debunked false narratives spewed and taught by Klutch Sports.. literally every point has been refuted many times and in many ways..

But I'll start with the bolded part at the bottom of SABR's post that says lebron was a better younger and older player... Even if you think Lebron was better from 18-23 and 36+, many all-timers reached higher levels of basketball performance during the prime of their careers than young or old Lebron.

So who cares about the inherently lower caliber of basketball that players have young or old ages.. The issue at hand is who was better during their prime years that the young or old versions can't touch.

Jordan was clearly superior during these prime years.. The other years (young or old) only measure who was a later-bloomer and who decided to focus on playing longer, respectively.

Of course, even though it's clear that MJ was better during their respective primes, he was also better from 21-23 year old.. People simply make a mistake by comparing Lebron's early playoff teams to Jordan's, since Lebron had a 3-year headstart to develop a favored high seed before entering his first playoffs.. Obviously, the playoff records of 3rd-year high seeds that face losing teams cannot be compared to the records of rookie 8 seeds that face dynasties.

So putting aside Lebron's 3-year headstart that prevents a comparison of their teams at 21 years old or early playoff records, the only viable measuring stick left at that age is to compare their performance against similar competition.. Specifically, Lebron's run to the 2007 Finals was invalidated after it was confirmed that a bed-wetter achieved it (22 on 36% vs Spurs)... He simply couldn't achieve viable performance versus Finals comp at that age because he wet the bed against the 08' Celtics too (26 on 35%).. How could anyone think that a confirmed bed-wetter vs top teams compares to Jordan's goat-caliber at that age vs top teams (44 on 50% vs Celtics)?

So that's hardcore evidence of Lebron's inferiority at 21-23 years old (bed-wetting against top teams), while the regular season and playoff records at these ages are skewed by Lebron getting a 3 year headstart to develop a high seed before reaching 21.

Btw, Lebron's victory of the 07' East as a confirmed bed-wetter was consistent with other bed-wetters winning the East with 1-star teams during that decade, such as Miller, Iverson, Dwight, or Kidd twice - that's 6 times that the East was won by 1-star teams and none of the runs required elite stats or top 30 all-time status.. The 00's East was the only conference in history that was won by multiple, different 1-star teams and it happened 6 times.. The fact that everyone won the East with 1-star teams at that time, along with Lebron being exposed as a bed-wetting vs Finals comp completely invalidates his 07' East victory as a goat-caliber achievement.

Regarding 2016, the Cavs had 3 franchise players compared to 1 for the Warriors, which is why the Cavs were favored in the preseason.. Initial favorite status of the on-paper talent is important because the entire fraud of Lebron's career is that his style underachieves favored talent (loses with preseason favorites, or falls to underdog) - this makes any win seem like an "upset" and carry-job despite the roster being favored initially... lebron fans claim that HE'S the reason the rosters are initially favored but this is false because his rosters weren't preseason favorite until he teamed up with the #2 producer in the league at the time (Wade) plus another all-timer at 3rd option (big 3) - Lebron hand-picked 8 preseason favorites from 2011 to 2016 and 2020-21'.. So he isn't the reason for his roster's initial favorite status, but his weak brand of ball is the reason they fall to underdog or loser (underachieves favored talent).

Ultimately, it's better to produce perennial winners that rarely lose than perennial losers that rarely win.. Otherwise, the next win by the league-worst pistons should be considered a goat achievement and Cade beginning his goat case... That's what Lebron does except on the Finals level - his teams are the "pistons" of the Finals - even the worst teams eventually win but it doesn't mean their best player is goat..

Again, it was a compilation of debunked arguments

for example, guys like Curry don't get credit for beating the injured Cavs in 15', so why would Lebron get credit in 2018 for beating an injured team in the ECF?? Lebron had the only all-star sidekick in the conference and a 3-year defending conference champion vs baby teams that were injured with no chance.

Wins over weak and injured teams are irrelevant because everyone has carry-jobs vs weak teams - the issue and unrefuted point is that Lebron never had carry-jobs or carried weak help vs TOP teams - he never won a series against a top 5 SRS or Finals team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick.. We already know that he lost with 18 on 38% from Mo, while MJ beat many top teams with that from Pippen, while often having worse team defenses..

Ultimately, there are more ways to demonstrate MJ's goat dominance than for any other player... i.e. the best-scoring DPOY was Hakeem with 27 ppg and DPOY, except MJ achieved 35 and DPOY - the goat caliber of 2-way play.. MJ was also a 1st-time point guard at 26 years old and he was instantly the best point guard in the league - this is goat talent for the game of basketball.. There were no other 30/10/10 point guards at that time and there wouldn't be any until the "30/10/10 era" some 30 years later... So Jordan could dominate the way Lebron does (point guard style) but Lebron can't dominate via expert jumpshooting skill and instinct to play off teammates (off-ball).. Jordan's dominance on and off-ball allowed him to fit with any teammate or system - this flexibility of skilset allowed the best teammate development, chemistry and strategic capacity/coaching, thereby producing the best team ceilings/Finals records.

If the NBA viewed high school players in 1981 the same way they viewed them in 2003, aka "instead of only looking at the best college players, we increase our chances of finding the next superstar by looking at the best high school players as well, and we should look at both groups with nearly equal viability".

If this was the case in 1981, MJ would've made a massive late-draft surge to the top of the boards above #1 pick Mark Aguirre and Isiah/Buck Williams that came after.. The reason we can say this with certainty is that we know that anyone who saw MJ during his senior year instantly thought he was the best in the country - Roy Williams said he was the best 6'4" high school player that he'd ever seen after seeing him dominate a few scrimmages at 5-star.., Meanwhile, Bobby Knight swore that MJ was the GOAT before he played a single NBA game.. In today's era, Jordan's alien-like hangtime and big man hands would be the hottest thing in the HS hoops youtube world.. He would be like Zion in HS and not a secret like many prodigies were in the 80's,

And I do believe that 19-year MJ could easily average 20 on weak efficiency in the NBA... And the jump that Jordan made between his freshman and sophomore years was the biggest development of his career, according to Dean Smith - and he actually stagnated during his junior year in the strict college system.. Accordingly, sophomore Jordan was basically the same as rookie MJ and would easily average 25+ in the league... People don't seem to understand that most perimeter stars average more PPG in the NBA than they do in college.. The same goes for other tougher formats like international stars, who also average more in the NBA than international leagues.

Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving are not franchise players, if they are your best player your team is in the lottery to maybe a 7seed at best

It's the same repeats, Lebron's teammates are amazing, the opponents he played aren't actually good.

Lebron couldn't play with players like Wade/Westbrook, Wade wasn't a good fit, they won despite it.

meanwhile Jordan never had to share and had rosters built to supplement his skills, imagine they picked up some washed scorer in 96 instead of a dominant defense player in Rodman

It's the same repeats, Lebron's teammates are terrible, the opponents he played are the GOAT teams.

fallguy,

Is Kareem the GOAT for fighting with Bruce Lee?

The 2017 Warriors are clearly the GOAT team though. Where's the lie?

Ok, the 2018 Warriors were pretty much the same team, just a bit more fatigued than in 2017. And the 2018 Cavs were worse than 2017 Cavs, having replaced Kyrie with... nothing.

2007 Spurs had Duncan, Parker, Ginobili vs LeBron and who as his second best player?

That's 3 finals where LeBron's equity was like 10-20%.

SABR42,

Don't try using logic against the Jordan Stanners. It won't work.

Meh, this is not a case of “both sides”.

The LBJ side accepts MJ as a goat level player; whereas the MJ side is constantly arguing LeBron is a bum barely or not even top 5.

One side of this is driven by a toxic mix of hate and nostalgia, the debate is a proxy for them arguing a small sliver of NBA history as basketball perfection. The other side is really a lot more okay with itself, accepting of change and progress.

Warrior 2018 should thx Chris Paul for getting injured and missing the last 2 games to win 4-3 it seem .
If only those rockets created so much problem for warriors , im confident I can find better teams then those rocket ….

Tho I guess they paid it back vs Toronto the year after .

"keeping up" with point guards and "hanging" with bigs isn't "locking down"

And this is a repeated theme - Lebron's caliber on defense is often mediocre despite being "versatile", while Jordan was always just the best - he always played the best defense possible on the PG, SG or SF assignments, while Lebron is frequently getting destroyed on defense despite being "versatile"

So it's a clear-cut choice - versatile but mediocre, or simply the best?...

i.e. getting pushed into defensive assignments by Kuzma, or leading the way with lockdown defense and setting the example/standard like MJ?

Complete bs - Lebron was never asked to guard good bigs like Duncan or Dirk, just like Jordan was never asked to guard them.. So it's a lie to say he "locks down" bigs when he literally never has.

I remember when lebron was supposed to guard David West in Game 1 of the ECF - West destroyed Lebron so obviously and severely that Spolestra had to change the game plan for the rest of the series.

Ultimately, Jordan played the best defense possible on 3 positions, while Lebron doesn't play great defense on bigs or point guards, while being incapable of defending shooting guards off screens like Klay, and also letting opposing SF's win FMVP four times..

So despite Lebron's perceived versatility, he doesn't play great defense on any position, while Jordan played the best defense on 3 positions - again, this is a repeated theme - Lebron is "versatile" at basketball but Jordan is the best at it.

oh wow - Lebron did spot-duty against Jamal Murray and didn't get destroyed... Again, it's a repeated theme and the ultimate question - mediocre but versatile (bron), or simply the best at it (MJ)?

because MJ played the best defense, while Lebron was often mediocre on all positions despite being perceived as "versatile"

MJ nearly always caused his matchup to shoot very poorly (35-43%) and below their normal PPG average, aka the best defense, while Lebron usually lets his opponents get their normal averages and shoot well..

A cursory glance at each series QUICLY shows this - we saw SF's like Jamison, Iguodala, KD, and Kawhi go off on Lebron, while no one ever "went off" on MJ.

don't compare Duncan to Lebron defensively - Duncan was more like Jordan in that he played the best defense on the assignments he's given, while Lebron plays mediocre defense but more "versatile"... So Duncan is better than lebron defensively for the same reason Jordan was - he plays better defense than lebron despite being less versatile.

And Jordan compares to Duncan's impact defensively because of leadership - Duncan let a stacked team be matadors on defense and get embarrassed by Carlos Arroyo, while Jordan drove teammates to play their best and give maximum effort.. It's night and day - Duncan naturally has more visible impact because of great rim protection but Jordan inspired teammates to play great defense and always got the best out of teammates... So he's the superior defensive leader when we combine his goat defensive example just like Duncan provided, while also providing leadership and inspiration that Duncan couldn't.

None because Jordan used more possessions (usage) at higher efficiency on those possessions (ortg)

and teammates played to capacity alongside Jordan compared to their highs without him, so all of Jordan's scoring was needed, especially because Pippen had historically-low efficiency, so he couldn't handle additional load.

Otoh, Lebron's teammates didn't play to capacity alongside him, so they could've scored more - Jamison, Love, Bosh, Ingram, Hughes or Westbrook scored far more alongside other stars that could play off them better and fit better.

Jordan was such a good scorer that teammates were almost never in better positions to score than him, especially not the bum scorers that he played with.

Otoh, Lebron needs a bunch of set up time and ball-domination, so teammates are often in better positions to score due to Lebron's own scoring limitations.. If jumpshots or FT's are being given to Lebron, it's often better for him to pass due to him shooting only 37% outside of 5 feet for his career.. Otoh, Jordan usually remained the best scoring option regardless of what was being offered by the defense.

And for the 80th time, Jordan averaged more assists in the playoffs.. This was true thru half their chips until 2015 when Curry's spacing era made offense easier for everyone - only then did Lebron start to average more assists in the playoffs..

So the entire notion that Jordan was just a scorer is false - he led the bulls in assists for most playoff runs, which includes 3 title runs.... If elite playmaking, dribble forays or APG was required, Jordan was the only option on the Bulls.. As a 1st time point guard at 26 years old, Jordan instantly became the league's best point guard - that's goat talent for the game of basketball.. He was the only 30/10/10 point guard in the league and this was 30 years before the 30/10/10 era... However, he needed to win and didn't have Kareem, so he had to return to the more winning brand of ball (ball movement, off-ball, expert jumpshooting).

No, the Mavs didn't vigorously defend Lebron and often used JJ Barea to defend him on the post, or Jason Terry.. Lebron simply lacked the jumpshooting skill and post ability to adjust to defenses of top teams the 07' Spurs, 08' Celtics, 10' Celtics or 11' Mavs - his scoring was horrible in all these series.

When I see that picture of him having intense look with a 5'11" guy defending him on the post (Barea) - this makes me laugh because it's like "relax bro... take a breath and casually slide the drop-step past him.. Simple... easy game"..

I'll never know why he seemed so panicked in that moment, but I'm quite certain that I would've done better against Barea in those specific post situations if you transplanted me in those exact moments - that's how bad Lebron's choke was that MANY complete scrubs like me think we could've outplayed him on several possessions in that series.

^^^ this is false confirmed as false since Wade led the scoring in the ECF, which allowed Lebron to finally get past the Celtics.

Wade was a proven winner and FMVP that taught Lebron to perform under pressure..

Otoh, Jordan entered the league as an assassin that knew how to play under pressure.. Jordan never underachieved the expectation, which contrasts with Lebron's documented cases of underachievement, such as losing as the favorite, or losing with the preseason favorite, or losing with 1 or 2 seeds, or losing with multiple all-star teammates, or losing while getting locked up, or losing in the Finals..

Jordan never did any of these things, while Lebron has many cases of each type of loss.

What a smack in the face and a disrespect to the goat scorer.

Jordan was a goat jumpshooter, and "knock-down" jumpshooter, which includes being the greatest 2-point jumpshooter ever.. otoh, Lebron is considered a bricklayer and sub-par jumpshooter that shoots 37% outside of 5 feet for his career..

Lebron's jumpshot is a better version of Giannis or Zion, so he's known as a bricklayer similar to them but not quite to their extent.. Otoh, MJ's jumpshooting was "knock-down" caliber.. He also had "expert jumpshooting skill", aka ad-hoc, off-the-cuff, quick jumpshooting ability, footwork, off-screens, and hang-time/creativity that Lebron can only dream about.. Lebron is a robotic jumper and often time-consuming and herky-jerky (not quick and graceful, which yields better flow and chemistry).

Lebron also has many seasons or series of shooting poorly from three at 3+ attempts, while Jordan has no examples of him shooting poorly at today's volumes (3+ attempts) - Jordan only shot poorly at bailout volume (less than 1.5 attempts) but always shot well at today's volumes.. Since Jordan always shot 36-39% from three when he had today's volume despite no practice, he would shoot over 40% in today's game WITH practice.. This is intuitive and his achievement of becoming the greatest 2-point jumpshooter further boosts this argument that he would be better from 3 with practice.

Jokic, Bird, Magic and Draymond have a better goat cases based on the "rebounding & passing" argument, so it's a bad argument compared to Jordan's scoring argument, where no one can claim to make that argument except Jordan.

Jordan already overcame the kind of player that Lebron is by overcoming Magic and Bird.

And Jordan was a better offensive rebounder, while it's bad for a team to have their shooting guard steal and get the same defensive rebounds as frontcourt teammates, so the entire rebounding argument is simply false and irrelevant.. And we've been over passing already - Jordan was a great passer and could dominate via the point guard skillset just like Lebron, while Lebron cannot dominate via expert jumpshooting skill and instinct to play off teammates (off-ball) like Jordan did.. Jordan's superior skill diversity (on-ball and off-ball) allowed great chemistry and strategic capacity/coaching.

It's funny that Lebron is being perceived as this superior inside player when Jordan was the all-time dominant post player and Lebron was not, while Jordan averaged more offensive rebounds (the only kind of rebounds that matter when comparing guards to forwards).

In the history of basketball, Jordan has the best first step, jab step, hop-step and drop-step (among non-bigs), while also having superior jumpshooting skill than Lebron, offensive rebounds, defense, FT's, clutch, ball-control (turnovers), instinct to play off teammates (off-ball), fundamentals/footwork, post play, tougher mentally (won't meltdown like 10' or 11')..

Furthermore, his ability to dominate both on-ball and off-ball fosters better chemistry, fits and teammate development (doesn't impose spot-up roles via ball-domination).. Jordan also didn't "need spacing" like Lebron's drive-heavy game, while his off-ball ability allowed a better brand of ball..

Then there's intangibles like leadership and also commanding respect and FEAR from peers.. the "IT" factor. .. I also think MJ was better in transition because his fastbreaks were textbook passing and far crisper than Lebron's bull-in-china shop approach to the game.

Jordan has twice the ring frequency as lebron (40% to 20%) and mostly won with 1 all-star while Lebron mostly loses with 2

Jordan was far better in his prime, such as more media accolade, production rate stats/individual dominance and team success.

And Jordan was better at all the actual basketball aspects listed in the previous response above.

Dirk gets no props for beating a super-team in 2011 because no one ever talks about it and it's minimized when someone brings it up to further the fake goat debate..

And no one has worse context than Lebron - he teamed up with opposing franchise players but still mostly lost and rarely wins with any cast... And outside of these collusions, he's a 1-trick pony like Iverson or dwight.

it's the pattern that matters.. 6-1 wouldn't mean much, but if Jordan was a perennial loser on the Finals level then this would indicate that his skillset produces low team ceilings (perennial underdogs and perennial losers on the Finals level regardless of cast).

Lebron is nowhere near the scorer that Jordan was, so I'm not sure the point of bringing up longevity, which is playing at a lower level and scoring at a lower level for longer.. it's meaningless to say that lebron was a worse scorer but did it for longer...

Yeah he was - he never lost as the favorite, or with homecourt, or with 1 or 2 seeds, or with preseason favorites, or in the Finals, or while getting locked up..

Everyone else in history lost many times in all these scenarios.

Pippen never exceeded Wade's scoring ability from 2013-2016, so when you say "got good", you're being results-oriented based on ring count and not actual performance.. You guys hated Wade from 2013 onwards because his production reduced to prime Pippen level - this was insufficient for Lebron fans.

Pippen's offense was easily replaceable and there's plenty of ways to achieve the #7 defense that the bulls had during the 1st three-peat - they had inferior defenses to most of their ECF and Finals opponents during the 1st three-peat.. Pippen never played above a peak Iguodala or Larry Nance level, but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status.

As an example, look at the 90's Knicks.. Outside of Ewing and Starks, they had 4 guys that were equal or better than Horace Grant, such as Mark Jackson, Anthony Mason, X-Man and Charles Oakley... So the Knicks always had superior talent top to bottom, yet they could never beat MJ... Most top opponents had better on-paper talent and far more players with all-star experience - this includes every Finals opponent except the jazz and every ECF opponent..

The bulls had the exact same roster in 1991 that they had in 1989, except Pippen and BJ averaged 4 more ppg each - so the roster was still very thin, but the chemistry had become goat... And that's what makes Jordan goat - he's the only guy that was good enough to undertake the league's biggest burden and still achieve championship brand of ball (win titles as the NBA usage or scoring leader).

^^^ more bullshit

Lebron had better team defenses than the 1st three-peat bulls in 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012..

Jordan played with 2-3 good defenders at a time like Pippen/Horace or Pippen/Rodman/Harper, while Lebron played with far more good defenders and players with all-defensive accolade such as Hughes, Varejao, Battier, AD, Rondo, Danny Green, Beverly and Avery Bradley, while also playing with far more rim protection and good rebounders..

Lebron had so much rebounding help that he was often 4th on his own team in rebounding.. Jordan played with 3 teammates that averaged 7+ rebounds alongside him (pippen, rodman, horace), while Lebron played with DOZENS of guys that averaged 7+ rebounds like Zydrunas, Drew Gooden, Varejao, Ben Wallace, Shaq, Jamison, Bosh, Birdman, Haslem, Mosgov, Love, Tristan Thompson, AD, Vanderbilt, Javale McGee and many more..

Similarly, Jordan had no rim protection and only 2 guys that averged 1.5 blocks (horace, longley), while Lebron played with many guys that averaged 1.5 to 2.5. blocks such as Zydrunas, Shaq, Ben Wallace, Bosh, Joel Anthony, Birdman, AD, McGee, and more.

Lebron won the 13' Finals with worse true shooting than Jordan had in the 96' Finals.. Lebron shot 52.9 compared to Jordan's 53.8

Furthermore, Jordan won with a sidekick that averaged 15.7 on 34%, so he carried the scoring load (faced max defensive attention), yet he still had better true shooting than Lebron had in the 2013 Finals..

Again, Jordan had better true shooting despite facing max defensive attention (carrying scoring load), while Lebron had equal-scoring teammate to attract equal defensive attention but still had worse true shooting.. Overall, Lebron only averaged 2-5 more points than sidekicks during Finals series victories compared to 10-20 for MJ.

The 98' Jazz had 9.7 net rating compared to 8.1 for the 14' Spurs, while also having equal SRS.

Furthermore, the 98' Jazz actually BEAT HANDILY the popovich/duncan/robinson Spurs via gentleman sweep before sweeping Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers

So there is no evidence that the Spurs were as good as some of the teams the Bulls faced..

The conclusion that the Spurs were a "goat team" is results-oriented based on them beating the Heat in massively surprising fashion and record blowout.. Otherwise, the fossil Mavs almost beat them in 7 games and OKC with Westbrick took them 6 games.. Duncan had all the age excuses in to lose in 2014 that Lebron had last year, yet he won by record amount while Lebron was swept.

edit: it's the 97' Jazz (not 98' Jazz) that had 9,7 net rating (much higher than 14' Spurs)

Scrolled past fallguy's latest post without reading.

What about when LeBron locked down a PRIME DRose in the playoffs. He literally told Spo "I got DRose". And locked him DOWN!

Dude literally repeated himself twice to make his post longer.

LeBron's teammates in these finals are objectively terrible vs the competition he went up against:

2007
2015
2018

There is no "both sides" here.

Cavs chances in 2015 finals after Kyrie went down was nothing. His 2nd best player was Delly for the 2015 finals vs a team that won 73 games the following season with identical roster.

And 2018 and 2007 covered here:

They can't even name a few of the other players in the starting 5 of that 2007 cavs team without google.

When did Jordan lose his 2nd and 3rd best player for a finals run and went up against a 67 win type Warriors team? Never.

I'm putting Bran's 2015 finals as more impressive in individual performance than any of Jordan's finals.