[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread
This thread is to separate the Bovada-related comments and questions from the Official Bodog Support Thread, which is there only for questions or concerns about anything Bodog-branded.
There is no official Bovada Rep at 2+2 at this time, but perhaps if discussion is effected in a civil manner, one might arrive in due course?
Thank you.
MH
lmao. everytime rn.
It's actually insane that cashgame players haven't recieved a single refund this year asfaik and some are thinking about switching to mtts.. Is this how the death of online poker looks like?
I'm going to Philippines for vacation I'm assuming I can't play iggy over there correct?
Can I sign up for a foreign site if I'm just visiting for a month or so?
Sorry to derail from bots convo. Not sure I can bring myself to go back to ACR and I hate playing live. Sad times.
At the moment ACR is a better option than Iggy and it's not even close.
Yeah it's brutal. Not even sure ACR is the answer but it's hilarious to think that Iggy has gone from probably the softest site in the world to one of the hardest.
I think people are vastly underestimating how good the bots are (which I guess should be obvious if they're also sharing cards). I imagine with ultra table selecting they can still be beaten but probably just not worth it.
The bots have gotten much better the last few years. They are definitely card sharing and can now decide if you are a fish or reg and make adjustments. Combine that with all of the legal sports betting you have in the US and it makes sense that the games are pretty bad
Bots are very beatable you guys just aren't doing it right.
Jan 1st til now at 200nl on Iggy.
In before the sample size critics come rally to protect their narrative.
So you ran hot for 20k hands... why post such a graph?
Bots are very beatable you guys just aren't doing it right.
Jan 1st til now at 200nl on Iggy.
In before the sample size critics come rally to protect their narrative.
You have a misunderstanding of why you are winning, it does not involve you beating the bots.
You can take the qualitative evidence of a host of high stakes regs leaving because the games are, if not unbeatable, so marginal as to not be worth the time. Or you can take your anecdotal evidence that you've beaten some 200nl this year and 95% of other regs are wrong.
You have a misunderstanding of why you are winning, it does not involve you beating the bots.
You can take the qualitative evidence of a host of high stakes regs leaving because the games are, if not unbeatable, so marginal as to not be worth the time. Or you can take your anecdotal evidence that you've beaten some 200nl this year and 95% of other regs are wrong.
Sounds to me like you aren't using your critical thinking skills and just following what everyone else told you to do.
The misunderstanding you have is you are playing the bots like you play regulars. You obviously can't do that.
The idea that you think ACR is somehow easier than Iggy even though you can actually study bot play on Iggy due to the fact that you get to see the results of the HH after 24 hours is not a logical conclusion.
Bots are very beatable you guys just aren't doing it right.
Jan 1st til now at 200nl on Iggy.
In before the sample size critics come rally to protect their narrative.
this is so arrogantly shortsighted and you perfectly demonstrate the predatory zero-sum nature of poker.
who cares if you are beating the bots now? what about a year from now, 5 years, 10 years? we're in an era where cheating is getting worse, and we need to be pulling together and pushing sites to do better for their players. your post is completely missing the point.
it's also incredibly cringe that you think posting a +7k graph is in some way a huge **** you to the players in this thread that are rightfully fearful. I've been a pro for 15 years and while, like you, i believe that the games are still beatable, i'm not dumb enough to not see the very real threats that are present to the future of online poker.
the irony that you say people aren't using 'critical thinking' while behaving like an immature child is pretty wild
this is so arrogantly shortsighted and you perfectly demonstrate the predatory zero-sum nature of poker.
who cares if you are beating the bots now? what about a year from now, 5 years, 10 years? we're in an era where cheating is getting worse, and we need to be pulling together and pushing sites to do better for their players. your post is completely missing the point.
it's also incredibly cringe that you think posting a +7k graph is in some way a huge **** you to the players in this thread tha
You're using a lot of emotional language and attacking me for my opinion on a subject just because I don't agree with you. You look much more immature than I do.
The only way online poker is going to survive in the distant future is if it get's legalized so we have some sort of oversight. This pseudo-oversight by the community to try to convince offshore companies to somehow take poker seriously was never going to work.
If you don't understand this then you just have your head in the sand. The writing has been on the wall for awhile now so you need to have some sort of plan in place when the online games eventually do dry up (it won't happen anytime soon so don't worry).
Thanks for chiming in though, always appreciate the personal attacks.
You're using a lot of emotional language and attacking me for my opinion on a subject just because I don't agree with you. You look much more immature than I do.
The only way online poker is going to survive in the distant future is if it get's legalized so we have some sort of oversight. This pseudo-oversight by the community to try to convince offshore companies to somehow take poker seriously was never going to work.
If you don't understand this then you just have your head in the sand. The w
it has already been proven that the pseudo-oversight from players can elicit change. take what has happened at ACR for example. players in the hs discord came together to collate evidence to prove that there were hundreds of bots on the site. this is still an ongoing process but if it weren’t for players uniting, this wouldn’t have happened.
GG is another example, although to a lesser extent. again we were able to boycott and challenge the sites policy to revert the rakeback changes that they attempted to enforce. admittedly with the news from Russian gg skin this week, gg seems like a lost cause…
obviously ignition is a different kettle of fish because it’s anon and seemingly more offshore than acr or gg. but if we were able to arrange a mass boycott I genuinely believe that this could force change.
the qualm I have with your behaviour isn’t that you don’t see the solutions to online poker as I do, it’s the conscious decision to windmill your results in the face of people who rightly fear the reality that befalls them. I could also post a good winning graph my last 100k hands of iggy but I don’t think that does anything for anyone rather than boost my own ego. imo we need to work together, but you are right, it’s obviously your prerogative if you don’t see it that way.
and to your last point, I agree - people have told me poker has been dying since 2008 yet here we all are still making a living. I ofc just wanna protect that
it has already been proven that the pseudo-oversight from players can elicit change. take what has happened at ACR for example. players in the hs discord came together to collate evidence to prove that there were hundreds of bots on the site. this is still an ongoing process but if it weren’t for players uniting, this wouldn’t have happened.
GG is another example, although to a lesser extent. again we were able to boycott and challenge the sites policy to revert the rakeback changes
Listen we are ultimately on the same team here, we both don't like collusion/bots/cheating/RTA. I just don't agree with this fear based mentality.
You shouldn't be running away from the bots/colluders. You should be attacking them.
By definition, if colluders are using highly exploitative strategies to beat you then you can use the same strategies to beat them.
I don't want to go into specifics too much but I was checking out your latest YT video upload and the first hand you are playing at 2knl.
A colluder opens 3x with 26cc in HJ, colluder 2 (sitting right next to him) cold calls 75dd. You 3bet QQ OTB. Both colluders call.
The flop comes KJJr. They X to you and you cbet 1/3 and colluder 1 check-raises 5x and you fold QQ.
There's already 3 data points in the hand that let you know these guys are likely colluders so you can never fold here. You are going to be hemorrhaging money in these games if you are playing like this.
I do appreciate guys like you who try to help the community, I just don't think presenting collusion evidence to some shady gambling site is the best way to go about it, we should try to go the legal route.
GL!
sadly the QQ was from a good few months ago so i couldn't have known at the time - was the first wave of bots. but yeah you're likely right - and i am 100% hemorrhaging money on iggy atm
I think the biggest issue with ignition is that we haven't reached a voice high enough to, they have managed to ignore us.
The last few posts are so absurd in general. Benabadbeat is a certified crusher that played highstakes for many years in the toughest pools. If he is questioning what for years was the softest site it means we are in trouble. If your sample have not showed it yet, congratulations but everyone's winrate as at least shrunk by half for the biggest crushers. This is just the beginning as well. The bots are improving and humans are quitting. Unbeatable games are right around the corner.
Hello guys, I hope you're doing well at the tables. I have a question: I'm a player on Ignition and I want to mix tables from Ignition with tables from ACR. Is it possible to do this, or could I be banned on Ignition for playing on another site that isn't Ignition? I've heard stories that Ignition might ban you if they see you playing on other sites, using the excuse that your nickname on the other site (ACR in this case )doesn't match your real name, therefore it's not you... they close your account and keep your money. I want to know how true this is because I want to play seriously.
Playing on four tables is too slow for me... that's why I want to mix. Does anyone who plays on Ignition mix tables or not?
Hello guys, I hope you're doing well at the tables. I have a question: I'm a player on Ignition and I want to mix tables from Ignition with tables from ACR. Is it possible to do this, or could I be banned on Ignition for playing on another site that isn't Ignition? I've heard stories that Ignition might ban you if they see you playing on other sites, using the excuse that your nickname on the other site (ACR in this case )doesn't match your real name, therefore it's not you... they close your ac
You should not get banned for this. I've also never heard anything like that. Many people play multiple sites at a time.
while I disagree with DDP's confrontational methods, his conclusion is correct.
WRT bots, a lot of ppl are suffering from omnipotency bias -- belief that something you don't fully understand yet (bot strat) is all knowing and all powerful. To say that because solvers exist, bots must be using them, is assumptive. And there are a lot of claims being made about bots that are at best unsubstantiated and at worst pure hyperbole.
ACR bot raise river vs fish
ACR bot raise river vs reg
I'll filter for fish as an example of a non-adjusting player since there are biases in terms of average sizing/line
Fish raise river vs fish
Fish raise river vs reg
Probably the same bots as ACR if they use large flop sizes and donk a good amount.
Since average sample is smaller on Ignition it takes more intuition than raw stats to determine player types, and it's possible the Ignition bots haven't implemented it.
ACR bot raise river vs fish
ACR bot raise river vs reg
I'll filter for fish as an example of a non-adjusting player since there are biases in terms of average sizing/line
Fish raise river vs fish
Fish raise river vs reg
Probably the same bots as ACR if they use large flop sizes and donk a good amount.
Since average sample is smaller on Ignition it takes more intuition than raw stats to determine player types, and it's possible the Ignition bots haven't implemented it.
I dont believe it
ACR bot raise river vs fish
ACR bot raise river vs reg
I'll filter for fish as an example of a non-adjusting player since there are biases in terms of average sizing/line
Fish raise river vs fish
Fish raise river vs reg
Probably the same bots as ACR if they use large flop sizes and donk a good amount.
Since average sample is smaller on Ignition it takes more intuition than raw stats to determine player types, and it's possible the Ignition bots haven't implemented it.
That's interesting.
I gather that your point with the first two images is that the bots bluff raise river 5% less (3% to 8%) against fish than regs? I'm not familiar with these MDA graphics though and idk what '3% weak' means. Is the numerator RAISE RIVER+SHOW BLUFF and the denominator is ALL POSSIBLE RIVER RAISE OPPORTUNITIES? Is the raise river stat all river raise opportunities including IP/OOP and SRP/3bp/4bp? Also what is the sample size on these stats?
Thx
That's interesting.
I gather that your point with the first two images is that the bots bluff raise river 5% less (3% to 8%) against fish than regs? I'm not familiar with these MDA graphics though and idk what '3% weak' means. Is the numerator RAISE RIVER+SHOW BLUFF and the denominator is ALL POSSIBLE RIVER RAISE OPPORTUNITIES? Is the raise river stat all river raise opportunities including IP/OOP and SRP/3bp/4bp? Also what is the sample size on these stats?
Thx
Sample size (opportunities) is next to the stat % so >500 raises
Just SRP either R or XR
"weak" is just showed down low pair or worse which isn't accurate for river raises, but it's obviously way stronger from W%SD
There's discrepancies in other nodes that I probably won't post
