The Audacity to XR my Turn OB...

Shove..?

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This is a fun dichotomy.

Classic fish value line but there is a wrinkle. Bots do this now with pairs as I have been finding out through trial and error.

Especially on 2BW turn/flops. I'd fold as a default since I think it's more likely he is a fish than a bot but interested in results.

I think I would fold, imo its nutted...

Even against OBs? That's interesting.

Yes sir.

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It's a high probability that this is just a run of the mill fish but I would like to see results to see if the bots have infiltrated 25nl yet.

These are a few hands I posted in the Fun Thread where I thought the play could potentially be a bot.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

No straights or flushes

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I don't think any of those are bot plays, the 99 hand looks like a blocker play and the KQ hand (nice call btw)/76 hand are overbluffed spots from regs.

The first data point I look for when trying to find bot plays is non reg plays/non MDA plays.

Looking forward to results.

Depends how recreational a player he is, but I expect a raise of an overbet to be strength unless you've been overly active with them at the table.

Dry, dry, dry... ya, after the turn OB and XR, I'd lean fold too. Seems unlikely he's over valuing Kx or anything other than 2 pair+. If he has QJ or air, then I guess good for him.

No.

Fish can be passive. You won't see bots limp/call 5bb and xf a ton of flops.

Fish spew with no rhyme or reason. Bots will base their bluffs on GTO and exploits.

Fish are much less likely to improve whereas bots in a year will play much different than today's bots.

Fish will always be exploitable to the extreme. Bots? Who knows.

Goddamit you bots. Ruining things for everyone

Newguy can we get results on this one? I think these 2BW boards are a thing with the min XR.

Okay so high probability this guy is a bot if he doesn't show a strong hand imo.

MDA from slyless (I think?).

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Confirmed bot?

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Yeah that's a bot.

I just started a 5nl bankroll challenge and I think there are bots at 5nl as well. Same sh.it happened to me on 2 BW board (turned 2BW like what happened here, I think this is programmed).

My new default strategy against turn min XR is call with value and 3bet jam air since I need to see how they react to it.

Here is me getting owned at 5nl by a probable bot, next time I need to jam turn.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 0.05(BB)
HERO ($9.19) [VPIP: 29.1% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 36.7% | Flop Agg: 41.5% | Turn Agg: 33.9% | River Agg: 37.4% | 3Bet: 11.5% | 4Bet: 13.9% | Hands: 332039]
BTN ($5.99) [VPIP: 21.4% | PFR: 19% | AGG: 47.4% | Hands: 42]
SB ($4.63) [VPIP: 35.9% | PFR: 23.1% | AGG: 34.8% | Flop Agg: 44.4% | Turn Agg: 42.9% | River Agg: 14.3% | 3Bet: 0% | 4Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 20% | Hands: 39]
BB ($5.77) [VPIP: 46.7% | PFR: 40% | AGG: 71.4% | Hands: 15]
UTG ($5.25) [VPIP: 19.4% | PFR: 8.3% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 36]
HJ ($5) [VPIP: 10.8% | PFR: 10.8% | AGG: 33.3% | Hands: 37]

Dealt to Hero: T♦ J♣

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $0.13, BTN Folds, SB Calls $0.11, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [14.52 effective]
Flop ($0.31): 3♠ K♠ 8♥
SB Checks, HERO Bets $0.07 (Rem. Stack: $8.99), SB Calls $0.07 (Rem. Stack: $4.43)

Turn ($0.45): 3♠ K♠ 8♥ Q♥
SB Checks, HERO Bets $0.32 (Rem. Stack: $8.67), SB Raises To $0.64 (Rem. Stack: $3.79), HERO Calls $0.32 (Rem. Stack: $8.35)

River ($1.73): 3♠ K♠ 8♥ Q♥ K♣
SB Checks, HERO Bets $1.65 (Rem. Stack: $6.70), SB Calls $1.65 (Rem. Stack: $2.14)

**** like this is the main reason I'm doing the challenge, I need to recalibrate realistic winrates for for all stakes. Bots are like a new player class. Instead of reg/fish strategies you need a 3rd strategy which is bot strategy.

Another data point to notice is that they called in the SB both times.

Edit: You actually need 4 strategies because collusion players have different tendencies than the first 3 classes and will make plays with just no pair/no draw air where as bots don't do that I think.

The skill level for being an online poker player just leveled up.

Bots. Ugh. Online poker is so frustrating right now. Since i went on a big downturn im trying to grind back on 25nl and quite honestly ive been getting slaughtered even at that. Feels like my opponents can see my cards right now because they are constantly making the perfect play against my hand whatever it is. Now I know im dealing with bots too. Ive noticed a lot of the plays like you guys are talking about. Gotta recalibrate.

Hmmm. Niether look that sus to me, to be one hundred percent honest. People are forgetting how random and awful fish are?

Primarily, why would a bot play like this? Auto turn XR with any pair? Is that ever going to be a winning strategy in an environment infested with stations who can't overfold?

Maybe, if it was a good bot, they have you tagged regs and it becomes vaguely profitable if we're over double-barreling as we should be. But how many hands would that take to acrue reliable reg stats? Are you playing villains enough in these games for them to be capable of grand strategic switches like this?

Vaguely profitable? The bot's line prints.

1. Over double barreled spot

2. Over folded spot

NG just folded ACES (rightfully so with the information you had available). There's 0% chance this is only vaguely profitable vs the population.

Iggy is the best place to develop counter strategies since we get to see the hole cards.

All the 5bb winners at 200nl+ are dead men walking if they don't have a proper bot/collusion counter strategy.

Hmm...sounds like something a bot would say.

But seriously I kind of see your side as well. Like it doesn't make sense to be doing this in a spot (especially mine where turn OBs are extremely value heavy) and would seem to be a losing play.

Then again, with their raise size being so small, maybe they know players will be jamming all their value so they can just overfold to a shove.

But stations won't fold AA, and that's what 95% of the bot's target market?

Can we test this and everyone start autoraising turns with dying pairs? if it wins I'll accept

I think we overlook that people are just very often pissed out of their minds too. Especially cash tables. Owning regs or avatars or big stacks is a enticing thing to do when you're smashed and you'll try all kinds of rando 'moves' when you're not even looking at your cards. (cough cough like some hands posted here these days) Another guess, some of these look like whales annoyed their PP value just got minced after investing preflop.

i mean, i'm no bot expert. I hate them honestly. Would never use a bot me

Yeah you're right station's won't fold AA but if you look at MDA the 1 BW--->2BW is way overbluffed so they are targeting this specific board runout imo.

I still have a small sample right now but bots are everywhere. Go look in the ACR/Bovada threads. Guys who were crushing before can't even beat the games now.

Also the MDA I showed for fish has 62% probability of 2 pair+ so when we start seeing a hand like 99 you can just use Bayes Theorem calculations to know that it is more likely a bot than a button smashing fish.