[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread

Just to clarify I’m speaking strictly PLO. I haven’t grinded NLH in a year or so

I’m in a discord with about 50 PLO pros. A few members contacted the bot owners and they are pretty upfront about everything

Gotcha, and how would the bot know who is a fish on ignition? Just based on the small sample of in-session stats (using drivehud or similar program)?

That would be my guess. Maybe also broken stack size? But pf you can generally see in as little as 5 hands.

Does Bovada have affiliate rakeback like Ignition?

yes

DooDoo, I don't get the point of posting that sample here while posting a thread in NVG stating "results are determined by luck".

This is my Bodog sample this year, by which I mean I played 2/3 of Jan then withdrew my roll after playing 5x the amount of 3 way 3b pots as any other site, and facing the same donk size over and over in SRPs.

I don't doubt you can grind hard and find a way to beat these bots and colluders, but that seems very shortsighted to me. You're developing strategies will not work outside this weird ecosystem (at this exact point in time), and hoping they don't advance to a sophistication level you cannot beat.

I don't know if Bena and the twitter crew can find enough support to pressure the site into changing (looking more and more unlikely at this point), but that seems like the most likely way to have Iggy be a viable playing option this time next year.

1. If you are going to post a graph please post your EV as well, that is pretty common knowledge.

2. The NVG thread was to give people an idea of how underestimated variance is in poker.

3. Poker is all about developing strategies, do you think online strategies will be optimal in a live 1/2, 2/5 game? No, not even a little bit. Being a poker player is about adapting to your environment. Bots are very easy to beat if you know their strategies. I'm not splitting my time between advocating for fair games/activism when I could be making money. There is no wrong/right way to think about this subject but it seems you think that if I don't agree with you then I'm short sighted.

We have different mindsets when it comes to this, which is fine. But your take on the subject isn't more valid just because more people agree with you.

I don't think my take is more valid because more people agree with me, never wanted to give that impression. You are clearly a good thinking reg based on your thread and hh discussions, so was curious what thought process lead to you disagreeing with the consensus in this thread.

1. EV bb/100 is 11.

2. For sure. The sample you posted is a data point. As is my sample. You could conclude that the games are beatable because of them. My point is neither data point means as much as the many regs winning at 5bb forever then breaking even or losing for the past year. I'm guessing you have hands where you can see your edge vs the bots; I never felt that way playing in these games. That would mean more to me than these graphs.

3. I mean ya, you don't think you're being short sighted, I do. That's not right or wrong, just our two view points but you came into a thread full of regs concerned about bots and collusion and said "you guys just aren't doing it right." I am saying your viewpoint makes little sense to me. I don't know if these bots are actually very easy to beat like you claim, I hope they are and hope you crush the living **** out of them. I wouldn't bet on this being a sustainable model but happy to be proven wrong.

are these official yet or still unofficial?

both, officially the first depo bonus

and unofficial exclusive amounts

Agreed if I showed you how to beat the bots that would mean more than graphs. But I'm not in the business of giving away valuable information for free, especially if we play in the same player pool. Also, I'm sure the guys who program these bots peruse this thread and I'm all set with educating them.

There are so many levels to poker, the guys who were winning at 5bb/100 in 2023 just weren't that good of players imo. You should be aiming for at least 10bb/100 in these games.

Cheers to crushing bots!

😃 ♥ 😃 ♥ 😃 ♥ 😃 ♥ 😃 ♥ 😃 ♥ 😃 ♥ 😃 ♥

MTT schedule seems dead today. Is there server downtime later?

Yes.

If you're able to win at 10bb at stakes beyond 200nl for more than 65k hands or whatever I'll be impressed.

This is the take I expected.

First of all, you need a massive bankroll to play 1k/2k because even if I'm beating the bots the regulars are still very good and I have to deal with variance.

I have never played higher than 200nl so there is a massive psychological factor involved in moving up to 1k as well which you just casually overlook.

Once I finish my bankroll challenge I will go to 500nl and proceed to crush all these little bots that you run away from.

Stay tuned.

Lol

Many have said the bots are exploitable (as a stand alone strategy, collusion aside).
You don't need large data or play high stakes to see and understand the types of lines that they take and the EV they accomplish by taking them.

I haven't been playing on ignition but here is a hand history from ACR where I suspect SB is bot based on similar lines observed.

Here we recognize bot turn range for small size is strong so we ship the FH

I don't know if the bot is GTO/GTO-ish or not, highly doubt it based on what I've seen but what I do know is there are obvious adjustments you can make against it.
So its kinda funny to log onto the forums and see ppl posting that the bot is unbeatable GTO, probably you're self owning against a fixed strategy

Ralph, you were trying to argue this point with a 20knl reg in the NVG thread, who is far better versed with these bots than any of us. I think it has been pretty well established how these bots are playing, they are basically using solvers on the fly, while also being able to exploit player pools and individual players based on their stats. You keep suggesting they have a fixed strategy, they don't, it's highly adaptable to player profiles.

Of course any bot that exploits player pools is also going to be semi exploitable itself but absolutely no where near to the degree all the 200nl regs in this thread seem to think. This point is being made ad-nauseam everywhere but you post a 2 hand sample to show how easy it is to exploit the bots because turn small bets are always value. I can't tell if you're trolling or not? They use small sizing as bluff too? They also seem to be updating/adjusting/perfecting the bot strategies too. I'm not saying the games aren't beatable, It really depends on the make up of the tables you are playing, but you guys are not crushing the bots or anything close to it.

Who is the 20k reg?

Haha not sure why the hostility. I trust my own judgement not appeals to authority. Happy to receive an invite to the 20knl regs discord group tho xD

Sorry if I have come off hostile I didn't think I was, but at the same time you just ignore the HH's I posted (which is the same sample size that you posted) and revert to "I trust my own judgement". Why trust your own judgement when you can instead rely on evidence and statistics? (The bot cash game HH's are all posted in the ACR thread in NVG).

Logical fallacies bug me, and you guys are just perpetuating your own. In regards to appealing to authority, historically this site has been full of lower stake regs telling higher stake regs that they are wrong about x or Y or that in reality they suck, invariably the lower stake regs take is just poor. I trust the judgement of all those involved who have removed their cfp students, or stopped grinding themselves, due to how good the bots are.

I mean, my take is obvious because of how dumb the counter argument is. You are effectively saying the games are easier due to how exploitable the bots are, and due to this you are winning at 10bb/100.

This can all be plugged in to variance calculators. you could prob grind up a 500nl roll with one solid month of grinding 200. Even better, you can play long hours short handed with the bots at 200z and crush the hourly even harder. You can easily take a few buy in shot take at 500 while doing this, then wait for the old small turn cbet in 3 bet pot, jam your nuts and stack the bots strong value range.

As you move up stakes you will also likely play in player pools that are even more bot heavy, another huge win for people who can exploit them. You will have infinite offers to stake you for 1k and 2knl after that if you're gun shy there. /s

So yeah, my take is obvious because you have a choice to pursue a hugely negative ev path of continuing some random non consequential bankroll challenge vs the insane positive ev route of taking a small equity risk to grind $50k- $100k+ months at 2knl. But you choose the BR challenge. It's the equivalent of people saying "I knew BTC was going to go from 1c to $50k... so I bought none".

Again, to clarify I have nothing against you or ralph but just take a step back and realise how insane your take is.

I didnÂ’t ignore the hand histories you posted dummy i ignored you because you made a straw man saying that I said the bot canÂ’t have a bluff in a small turn size. If you actually read what I wrote you would notice I chose my words carefully, simply saying that I noticed things the bot does that you can adjust to.
You seem desperate to prove some kind of point about how much better you are at poker because you play higher stakes. It’s the same insecure energy that concludes bots are unbeatable so may as well give up. I’m totally cool with it if you give up 😀