Is it OK to Probably Injure Traffic Blocking Protester to Possibly Save Life?
Let's be explicit so everyone is on the same page. This is unfortunately not a purely hypothetical question except for the preciseness I am hypothesizing.
You are driving your mother to the hospital along a route that you have every reason to believe is clear. But it's not, because of a protest. A protest that would not legally be allowed to totally block traffic as they are doing. Because of cars stopped behind you, the protest adds 20% to the probability your mother will die. If you slowly plow through the protest, there is an 80% chance that you will injure someone fairly seriously but no chance you will kill somebody. Are you wrong to do that? Should it be illegal? Does it matter what the protest is about?
(I think most of you will say it's OK. To those that did, what if the mother death probability went up by only 5%, the protester death probability went from zero to 70% and the policy being protested was clearly bad?)
I hadn't considered the issue of zombie protesters. But where you see problems, I see opportunities. If they keep coming back to life, that's extra business for us. Perhaps once we get off the ground we can even start offering returning customer discounts and other enticing deals.
Also, if the numbers work out, we could even start supplying the poors and other undesirables with Greenpeace placards and paying them to go out and and stand in the middle of the highway to drum up business.
Steamrollers are not the solution. Every time Tom was run over by a steamroller he would be flat and the suddenly pop back to a 3 dimensional figure. If you don't kill the protestor when you run them over, how will they ever learn?
Steamrollers are not the solution. Every time Tom was run over by a steamroller he would be flat and the suddenly pop back to a 3 dimensional figure. If you don't kill the protestor when you run them over, how will they ever learn?
We don't care if they learn, we're just in it for the money (and the lols, obvs).
I hadn't considered the issue of zombie protesters. But where you see problems, I see opportunities. If they keep coming back to life, that's extra business for us. Perhaps once we get off the ground we can even start offering returning customer discounts and other enticing deals.
Also, if the numbers work out, we could even start supplying the poors and other undesirables with Greenpeace placards and paying them to go out and and stand in the middle of the highway to drum up business.
I would apply RBG standard and not discuss zombie protesters
Guys,
I wasn't suggesting zombie protesters were an actual problem. Zombies aren't real. Duh. I picked that video because I wanted to show how cool it would be to use a steamroller for this project. Youtube is rotten with videos of people steamrolling zombies, but's it's much tougher to find a video of someone steamrolling a person. I did the best I could.
If the market works the way I imagine it would, one ancillary benefit of living in Luciomtopia would be more access to videos of people steamrolling over the living. We wouldn't have to rely on second rate video game captures of people steamrolling the undead or reanimated.
That isn't the standard for you. Killing the guy driving the moving van certainly would be the fastest way to deal with that traffic problem, just as killing the parking scofflaw would be faster than getting the guy's car towed. But you were reluctant to authorize killings (or even good beatings) in those scenarios, so obviously we are taking other things into account besides solving the problem in a timely way.
Also, all this delay is going to diminish the deterrent effect, which we obviously don't want in Luciomtopia.
That isn't the standard for you. Killing the guy driving the moving van certainly would be the fastest way to deal that traffic problem, just as killing the parking scofflaw would be faster than getting the guy's car towed. But you were reluctant to authorize killings (or even good beatings) in those scenarios, so obviously we are taking other things into account besides solving the problem in a timely way.
Also, all this delay is going to diminish the deterrent effect, which we obviously don'
aside from the fact that killing the guy who parked the car improperly doesn't remove the car from there, there are problems that require immediate solutions, others that don't.
Actual body freedom violations (false imprisonment of hundreds/thousands of people) are exceptionally severe violation of the other people rights, unlike exceptionally small increases in statistical risk.
And even in the case of the exceptionally severe violation of other people rights, i don't envision many of those criminals being killed by my proposal, just a few maybe at the beginning (until it isn't crystal clear to everyone that yes, we do allow running over you if you block a bridge or an highway).
The deterrent effect for the parking-which-increases-fire risk is there very clearly in my model, you automatically, guaranteed lose your vehicle.
aside from the fact that killing the guy who parked the car improperly doesn't remove the car from there, there are problems that require immediate solutions, others that don't.
He just got out of his car. After he is bleeding out on the sidewalk, I am going to rifle through his pockets, get his keys, and park his car legally. And I obviously will keep his keys safe and let his next of kin know where the car is parked. I'm not a monster.
As fellow citizens of Luciomtopia, I'm sure they will understand why I had to act rather than let my property rights be infringed on marginally for a few hours.
aside from the fact that killing the guy who parked the car improperly doesn't remove the car from there, there are problems that require immediate solutions, others that don't.
Actual body freedom violations (false imprisonment of hundreds/thousands of people) are exceptionally severe violation of the other people rights, unlike exceptionally small increases in statistical risk.
And even in the case of the exceptionally severe violation of other people rights, i don't envision many of those crimi
Right, that is why I suggested a light baseball batting for the moving van guy. Maybe a shotgun blast to the kneecaps if he really pisses me off. Proportionality is everything when it comes to these matters.
Depends on the reason for the delay. I mean, if we torture them a little first, it would certainly set the right example, but it does take a bit of time.
Look. We can noodle on this all day, but we won't be able to strike the perfect balance until we start disemboweling a few people, and waterboarding a few others to test the real world consequences on deterrence and delay. We can afford to adjust the instruments as we go along so long as we are certain that we are moving in the right general direction.
Look. We can noodle on this all day, but we won't be able to strike the perfect balance until we start disemboweling a few people, and waterboarding a few others to test the real world consequences on deterrence and delay. We can afford to adjust the instruments as we go along so long as we are certain that we are moving in the right general direction.
That's the spirit except you start with the small deterrence, and increase it if it's not enough
And that generalizes for me: the moment someone is committing an illegal act you should be legally allowed to fully disregard his wellbeing when fixing the situation.
It is apparent to me that you and Roccoco are in cahoots. Why else would you throw him ridiculous fastballs that he can swat away easily?
Also guys, my Bugatti can barely negotiate a 5 degree underground parking garage ramp, I don't think it's going to do very well with a body in the middle of the road. Do we have a solution for this?
Also guys, my Bugatti can barely negotiate a 5 degree underground parking garage ramp, I don't think it's going to do very well with a body in the middle of the road. Do we have a solution for this?
Isn’t pointlesswordstopia giving away 4 wheel drives and free hookers? You could move there, get your jeep and a blowie, or three, then migrate to luciontopia.
yes, people simply shouldn't block traffic to make any sort of statement, or joke, or whatever, i don't understand how that is complicated.
Why do you want to give tiny minorities so much power over everyone else?
Great question.
We give small minorities rights so that the rights of the greater majority are as well protected
It just occurred to me, in your search of steam roller clips, you clearly forgot the ending of A Fish Called Wanda
Not sure exactly what the Kevin Kline character was protesting here. Probably, being run over by a steam roller.
I am surprised at how many people like sublime and chillrob are in favor of the death penalty for deliberately obstructing traffic.
Does that apply to motorists who "block the box" or to people who illegally double park in order to deliver furniture, etc., or is this rule limited to pedestrians?
What if a stunningly beautiful person induces rubbernecking by walking nude along the side of the highway? Straight to the gallows?
Is the right to kill limited to the motorist who is being delayed? Or
I'm not in favor of the death penalty for that - I strongly support the police arresting those people, and them being charged with a crime, but it wouldn't come with extremely long prison sentences, much less the death penalty.
I am in favor of those people (after a quick warning) being moved out of the way by force. Ideally it would be done quickly by police, but if not I'm fine with a delayed motorist doing the moving. If the protestors have any sense at all, they will get out of the way quickly and not suffer any injuries. Those stupid (or, I suppose, principled) enough not to do so may very well incur serious injuries, and possibly even death. This is not nearly equivalent to imposing the death penalty on them.
In the examples you give of vehicles blocking traffic, the driver should be ticketed and the vehicle immediately moved, by towing if necessary.
Anyone walking on the side of the highway, naked or not, should be arrested if walking is illegal beside that highway (as in all interstate highways in the US).
There are already laws against public nudity, which I think are pretty silly and should not exist.
This is an all-purpose argument in favor of any type of vigilantism. Sure, we could authorize citizens to slit the throats of teenagers who jump turnstiles to avoid paying for the subway. That would be a terrible rule, but it probably would reduce turnstile jumping.
Also, I was using "death penalty" euphemistically. I obviously understand that sublime was advocating for civilians (not the state) to have the right to deliberately kill people who block traffic.
I'm not sure why you would prohibit
Those who jump turnstiles almost never prevent, or even significantly delay, others from using the subways. It also doesn't solve the problem. Running over protestors is not done in order to punish, it's done as an unintended consequence of proper use of roadways.
Those who jump turnstiles almost never prevent, or even significantly delay, others from using the subways. It also doesn't solve the problem. Running over protestors is not done in order to punish, it's done as an unintended consequence of proper use of roadways.
they can't understand we just want to get home and grill and play with our kids and **** our wives. that sort of life is illegal for them. having children and grilling is too much CO2 emissions. Biologically hetero sex is transphobic. Marriage is republican
