[Bodog/Bovada/Ignition] Unofficial Thread

How many CFP's have you even been in? I'm going to guess zero.

I've been in two.

BTS for 3 years and Metagame for a little under a year. CFP students in general are not good, of course they pulled them from the bot infested sites. CFP students are the types of people that grind 100k hands a month but don't even improve their game because they are so brain dead and fixated on their monthly target goals. This is why I was kicked out of both of mine btw. You can't get better at the game if you are focused on volume over process.

The coaches in CFP's are usually not very good either (except the main head coach - the underling coaches are very mediocre).

I remember being in Metagame and asking the 500nl coach some basic math problem on bluffing formulas and he literally just said "lol math." I mean these are the people you are talking too?

I was in a discord of 200 people and besides myself, there was probably only 1 or 2 other people that actively asked for relevant MDA in the MDA discord. 95% of all CFP students just follow the advice of their coaches and don't think critically. Yes those types of people would get absolutely destroyed vs bots.

And maybe with the exception of bitb - the head CFP coaches don't even play or play very little.

Anyways, I don't claim to have all bot strategies figured out but there are a bunch of spots that I know can easily be counter exploited. You need a completely separate strategy from your reg and fish strategy so I can why people wouldn't want to bother.

But as for me, I plan on staying on Ignition indefinitely to beat them at their own game.

Ponty, you are being as reasonable as possible in these exchanges. Logic is not working against these two.

Ralph, you came into the bodog thread, posted two hand histories from another site against a player you think is a bot and said this:

"I think its kinda funny to log onto the forums and see ppl posting that the bot is unbeatable GTO, probably you're self owning against a fixed strategy"

You received a perfectly normal response addressing the actual substance of your claims, but instead focused on the "appeal to authority" aspect of it, then called him a dummy when he pointed out the error in your reasoning.

DooDoo, agree with everything Ponty said. You tell everyone the consensus opinion is wrong, that the games are crushable for 10bb/100 and that you're moving down to 5nl with 5 buy ins for a challenge.

I mean if anything the hands ralph posted shows bot crushing, bot lost 1 buy in with trips top kicker vs top boat and won a 450bb pot by using its induce size

You've been in two c4ps and you're still only playing 200nl Iggy? Sounds like you might have been one of the shitter regs in the group that youre claiming there are.

200nl players and below in this forum always seem to be master exploiters but never get to high stakes. It's weird.

TY and to you as well.
I'm not basing my bot ideas off one or two hands, I just posted those to make a point, and I feel I made that point, but anyone can takeaway what they want, including from the hands you posted, which are also interesting.

Here's a hand where a bot defends a trash gutter against a 25% cbet. Solver mixes a small amount of call and raise, but basically it's a pure fold.

From a software standpoint it's much easier to code "never fold a straight draw otf against bet size less than or equal to 25%"
than to code
"never fold a straight draw otf against bet size 25% or less except sometimes mix but only on certain boards etc. etc."

That's the main reason why I find it unlikely, but not impossible, that the bot has the capabilities you're suggesting, including performing GTO as well as tailoring its strategy to individual opponent stats.

When I ran this with slightly different preflop ranges, it's mixing raise/call/fold 38/52/10 with Td6d

He doesn't play for the money. He spends all this time studying and improving not to make more money though.

He should be exploiting bots for ungodly hourlies but instead he has a point to prove doing some bs br challenge. What point no one knows.

Sure, most anything is justifiable in a solver if you fiddle with parameters. ThatÂ’s kind of the point, that obv calling T6dd is not a big mistake if at all, and when you program a bot youÂ’re aiming for simplicity and donÂ’t mind sacrificing small amounts of EV in some spots.

Again, what is being claimed the bot can do is extraordinarily complicated from a coding perspective and itÂ’s much more likely that the bot plays a fixed strategy using exploitative ideas and grinds mass volume which is the point of building a bot and is how you make money in poker anyway rather than being some kind of gto god.

You're saying the bots aren't playing GTO but your example is a hand they play GTO

They played a bit of 5knl so they're probably interested in playing well

As a software dev I'd be very surprised if they weren't programmed with CFR or pre-solves but I'd guess there's no ML or neural nets involved

I said I doubted it and you’re really not getting it and that’s ok

I think there is an important point to be made here. The company that runs bot farm supposedly has over 150 employees, It is probably safe to assume that these aren't coded for simplicity but rather for productivity.

You used the hand as a way of providing evidence the bots play a fixed (non GTO) strat, but if you have the wrong parameters, it is not evidence of what you claim.

I don't know if the bots can do things that are "extraordinarily complicated from a coding perspective", but several regs are saying they are and you are showing that hand as evidence they are not.

Lol my parameters are wrong because they’re not the ones you used?

I'm saying that when I can fiddle with wide ranges to put that hand squarely inside a GTO solution, it is more likely you used the "wrong" parameters than "the bots are playing fixed strat".

I'm not even saying you're wrong! Just that the hand you showed is not strong evidence.

Do you have any more hands like this?

Possibly of that same type (SRP), I already didnÂ’t find much and that bot account is no longer active so I am gathering hands from new profiles but there is some time lag because I have to identify them first. But yeah I do have a number of hands of bots doing things that arenÂ’t solver .
As far as stuff IÂ’ve posted, there are several hands in the ACR botfarm thread showing obvious preflop mistakes that the $40 MTT bots are making. loose aggressive preflop plays like stacking off with AJo AQo for 50+bbs that might not be bad against the player pool but that are exploitable if you know them.

Add in card sharing and collusion and you are drawing dead for sure. Some of the egos involved in this argument are lol.

What is the traffic like on the real money Hold'em tables at Ignition? I am trying to get a feel for this site with the play money tables and the action is few and far between there. They don't seem to allow observation of the real money tables due to their whole anonymous play concept. I'm not opposed to that but I would like to observe a real money game once in a while. I'm not going to deposit any money on this site if there is no one playing.

I have not played on the site in four days and I’m missing $200 out of my account. What the **** is going on with this site

At least at $1/2 and lower you'll be able to get 4 tables up very quickly

Were you playing Zone? I remember there's some glitch where it would be super slow to return my balance.

Just don't play Zone. Problem solved.

The amount of preflop colluding at 200NL and 500NL the last two weekends is off the charts. It was really bad in Jan and Feb, I thought it had slowed down a little, but it appears the teams are back. (should clarify I am referring to the regular tables, both 6max and FR)

My suspicion is that a lot of these 200NL regs are talking to each other while playing and soft-colluding. They have similar stats, generally act fast, yet when your in a 3 way hand with them they take way more time. Then if you fold they act fast again. They also will just cold call each others 3bets to get in pots with you 3 handed. Could just be paranoia from getting beat up over the last few weeks but it just feels the same to me now as it did in December last year.