British Politics

I like democracy too - it's literally why The West is better than most other places. The Brexit vote was an exercise in democracy against an organisation that is not democratically elected.

Nonetheless, some folk decided when they didn't like the result they would try and either ignore it or overturn it, which is not really very democratic.

It's also worth noting that since the Brexit vote extremists have found themselves on the fringes (if not kicked out) of British politics, and the next election will be fought by two of the blandest centrist parties imaginable.

Also, strange to say that standing up to the USA is apparently important, but standing up to the EU isn't.

I don't think the EU is anywhete near as dangerous as the usa but yes now we are out of it, it will become more important to stand up to it. I wanted us to be a full member which would have made us a significant partner. Instead we are getting closer to the usa where we will never have any real say on anything.

I don't think the blandness of the current parties should reassure us at all. They are staggeringly unpopular and moving rightwards fast. It's worse in much of the EU and brexit has harmed them too.

I don't expect you to agree. It is imo what brexit was really about. It was our failure not to argue the case for being a member.

i think farage is going to decide pretty quickly after these local elections whether he will take over reform and try to supplant the tories as the right wing party, or whether to go off to usa and do trump stuff

i think his decision is going to be massively impactful to uk politics for the rest of our lives

I agree blandness of current parties is a major problem. We need someone inspirational and willing to push the hard choices.

And I don't mean these strong men pricks.

We need the modern equivalent of the 1948 Labour government.

They're not even that bland. The tories are batty right wing by any normal standards. Labour are center right.

The spirit of 45 is what we need. Preferably without the fascist prelude.

I agree. And how the trump story ends

worse for democracy and progressiveness in which sense? do you think the EU is more progressive than the UK? because if that's not the case then leaving allows you more progressiveness than staying.

And at least currently, the center left and left in the UK poll very well, while in the rest of the EU, it's probably going to be the most rightwing election since we have european elections so...

As for democracy, how exactly is leaving a federation of states according to popular will "worse for democracy", i don't understand. What do you mean, in which sense?

You are right that for anything you need to coordinate with those countries, being out is worse. And the current situation wrt trade deals is a kind of a joke for the UK. But why using words as if they had no meaning? worse for democracy to leave the EU?? is switzerland not democratic because it isn't in the EU? Norway?

Or you know you can control the border.

I dotn share you nationalism and I dotn believe that outside the EU that the UK or the EU will be more progressive. We will move closer toi the usa when we should be moving away while the seeking of national advantage is very anti-progressive.

The risk of fascism in various EU countries is some form or another has risen dramatically. That is anti-democratic.

I inferred, rightly or wrongly that 57 may have thought Ireland's mass migration issue was recent, when it's being going on for 20 odd years.
Speaking of control how is lampedusa doing? 😃

Btw don't you have your own version of a Rwanda bill with Albania?

Can you link it? I'd like to see it. On our news we've had migrants being interviewed stating they avoided the UK and chose Ireland due to the Rwanda bill.

? i also thought UK leaving was a mistake btw. Common market and circulation of normal people and capital is very good.

The "risk of fascism " might have risen in the EU (obviously it didn't but i udnerstand we will never agree that the right is infinitely less fascist than the left in the EU), so how was brexit a reduction of democracy? you literally *fled* from that risk, i don't understand

Are classes in Irish universities taught in Gaelic?

we can't control water borders because of our judges , so very badly as usual.

Albania version is a tad different (and cleaner legally).

We disembark people from the sea there (so they never actually entered italy), and we send there people which have no rights to stay in Italy.

So if you reach italy and ask for asylum you don't go to albania. If we refuse, then you appeal and lose appeal, we send you to albania while we deal with the actual deportation to your home country or wherever it is you are going to end up

But the centers in Albania will be under italian law (like if they were embassy land) and managed by us, so we dodge a lot of legal problems

If the Conservatives win the London mayoral election after fielding your nan once she has had three gin and tonics and read a Reform Party leaflet then I'm going to be horrified.

My hypothesis is that so many EU countries are voting in right wing governments as a direct consequence of being in the EU. Meanwhile, as the UK is no longer at the behest of the EU, we are happy to vote a left of centre government in (or at the very least a government that is significantly to the left of most of Europe).

So take your pick - would people rather have remained in the EU but have a national government that was decidedly right-wing, or be outside the EU but have a relatively left wing government?

I don’t think it’s anywhere near that simple.

My hypothesis is first past the post voting system

Yes, of course.

Ben Chu is the economics editor for Newsnight (there's a very good analysis by him today on the UK's trade)

Fed by EU decision-makers about what laws to propose and push not being accountable or elected.

When a people find their leaders are not listening and cowtowing to an unelected body, and someone offers them a way to show their displeasure at that, are you surprised at all? I'm not.

The more the EU tries to keep its power and foist it on people via quisling politicians (looking at you Major, Blair and Brown), the more the opportunists will gain power.

Brexit aided the right of the far right in european countries which is bad for them and bad for us. It also raised the far right in the uk which is also bad for them and bad for us. We haven't fled anyhting in that regard.

Of course. As the right wingers seem to be the only ones with any chatter about not laying down and getting a good bumming from the EU (Whether they mean it or not)

Our leaders arent listening. They aren't tackling anything. Theya re pandering to the right or part of the right. That is why discontent is rising and it's why extremist and populist nutters are rising fast. This is not a an EU problem which is both democratic and accountable. I'm not one who says you cannot reasonaby argue to leave the EU - I think you are wroign and if we had had the courage of our convictions then you would have lost badly.

My case is that brexit makes so muh so much harder but in the end we have to elect more serious politicians who are going to tackle radical problems

To compound this, serious **** is coming down the road.