British Politics
Been on holiday for a few weeks, surprised to find no general discussion of British politics so though I'd kick one off.
Tory leadership contest is quickly turning into farce. Trump has backed Boris, which should be reason enough for anyone with half a brain to exclude him.
Of the other candidates Rory Stewart looks the best of the outsiders. Surprised to see Cleverly and Javid not further up the betting, but not sure the Tory membership are ready for a brown PM.
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/bri...
Regarding the LD leadership contest, Jo Swinson is miles ahead of any other candidate (and indeed any of the Tory lot). Should be a shoe in.
Finally, it's Groundhog Day in Labour - the more serious the anti-Semitism claims get, the more Corbyn's cronies write their own obituary by blaming it on outlandish conspiracy theories - this week, it's apparently the Jewish Embassy's fault...
No, English would be the first language unless you're studying Gaelic. There are areas in the west and northern parts of the republic such as Galway and Donegal known as the Gaeltacht in which Gaelic is the first language. There's also Gaelic speaking schools. I went to one and used to be fluent in Gaelic and I'm still passable at it although not as fluent as I was years ago.
No, English would be the first language unless you're studying Gaelic. There are areas in the west and northern parts of the republic such as Galway and Donegal known as the Gaeltacht in which Gaelic is the first language. There's also Gaelic speaking schools. I went to one and used to be fluent in Gaelic and I'm still passable at it although not as fluent as I was years ago.
Right. I asked because I remembered when that rule was introduced and the controversy it caused. It's good news for immigrants that they and specifically their children won't find any language barriers to studying there.
Our leaders arent listening. They aren't tackling anything. Theya re pandering to the right or part of the right. That is why discontent is rising and it's why extremist and populist nutters are rising fast. This is not a an EU problem which is both democratic and accountable. I'm not one who says you cannot reasonaby argue to leave the EU - I think you are wroign and if we had had the courage of our convictions then you would have lost badly.
My case is that brexit makes so muh so much harder bu
You're not engaging this dishonest Brexit clown again are you?
Funny how he disappears for months then reappears as soon as he thinks he has something to attack "ze Euros" over.
Brexit aided the right of the far right in european countries which is bad for them and bad for us. It also raised the far right in the uk which is also bad for them and bad for us. We haven't fled anyhting in that regard.
uh? no it didn't? Lega has lost a lot of votes since brexit, and that was the most important "far right" party in the EU. Now it's AfD, which grows just because every other party is leftist in Germany , there is no normal rightwing option unlike Meloni in Italy. AfD is rising because there is a will to the right everywhere, as the horrendous disasters of european leftism, in particular the energy-related ones, and the environmental regulations ones, and the immigration ones, have pushed the right a lot.
No one mentions brexit around here, it had no effect on our internal italian politics, we stopped discussing it a month after it happened. We only keep talking about it wrt italians needing passports to go to the UK and how that is creating us problems with passport issuance , stuff like that. No1 claims Meloni won because of brexit lol.
Right. I asked because I remembered when that rule was introduced and the controversy it caused. It's good news for immigrants that they and specifically their children won't find any language barriers to studying there.
I don't think it's the same in the actual primary & secondary schools system, but some migrants don't mind it anyway. This is anecdotal but A Polish neighbour of mine told me his kids were exempt from learning it but he wanted them to as they were living here (his kids also play GAA/Gaelic Athletic Association football), and a Romanian colleague's kid was learning Irish at schools. There are only exemptions in certain circumstances in actual schools, more on it here
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/ed...
I don't think it's the same in the actual primary & secondary schools system, but some migrants don't mind it anyway. This is anecdotal but A Polish neighbour of mine told me his kids were exempt from learning it but he wanted them to as they were living here (his kids also play GAA/Gaelic Athletic Association football), and a Romanian colleague's kid was learning Irish at schools. There are only exemptions in certain circumstances in actual schools, more on it here
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/ed...
This is what I'd expect to see, judging from anecdotal experiences here in London.
Some people's xenophobia takes over and they assume immigrants will always be speaking foreign languages but they're not thinking straight about how big a step it is to move yourself and your family to a country the other side of Europe, and how that usually implies learning the indigenous language.
uh? no it didn't? Lega has lost a lot of votes since brexit, and that was the most important "far right" party in the EU. Now it's AfD, which grows just because every other party is leftist in Germany , there is no normal rightwing option unlike Meloni in Italy. AfD is rising because there is a will to the right everywhere, as the horrendous disasters of european leftism, in particular the energy-related ones, and the environmental regulations ones, and the immigration ones, have pushed the righ
We're having different conversations. I talking about decades or even generations. That the time scale in which politics plays out. Short term election reults aren't relevant - it's like many if us being relived when Obama repalaced an insane nutty regime - it didn't change the underlying dynamics and the symptoms come back harder. We have to actually change things.
Talk of brexit is largely irrelevent as this is real political impact not chatter. It does matter to some extent and in the short term people remember the mess and pain. That will fade and it will come back with a vengence if and when the time is ripe.
This is what I'd expect to see, judging from anecdotal experiences here in London.
Some people's xenophobia takes over and they assume immigrants will always be speaking foreign languages but they're not thinking straight about how big a step it is to move yourself and your family to a country the other side of Europe, and how that usually implies learning the indigenous language.
Some migrants here, such as Polish and Chinese have also joined the Gardai/Irish police, so their language actually comes in handy when dealing with said communities when investigating crimes against them. I worked in Hospitality for 15 years and most of my workmates were migrants and the majority of them integrated, and spoke English in an Irish style, such as slang and whatnot.
I never understood the fuss regarding their native languages anyway, as obviously anyone living abroad will speak their own language at home or skyping with their family or fellow migrants from their own country. Whenever me & my partner visit Italy for example, I'll speak what little Italian I have to my in laws and in shops, but my partner and I will speak English when strolling about.
uh? no it didn't? Lega has lost a lot of votes since brexit, and that was the most important "far right" party in the EU. Now it's AfD, which grows just because every other party is leftist in Germany , there is no normal rightwing option unlike Meloni in Italy. AfD is rising because there is a will to the right everywhere, as the horrendous disasters of european leftism, in particular the energy-related ones, and the environmental regulations ones, and the immigration ones, have pushed the righ
I wouldn't call Meloni a normal right winger, she's been involved with the far right since her mid teens, wasn't she in the MFI youth wing? She was also involved with the National Alliance. Considering her neo Fascist background, I've found her surprisingly restrained wrt her comments in general, actually.
The key difference is we, the electorate, have the power to kick them out.
Do you really understand this difference and how important it is? I know you understand the difference intellectually, but I really, really don't think you get just how important it is for national democracy. You just hand-wave it like it's no big deal and talk about how the EU is becoming more democratic. Which shows you understand it isn't really democratic now, but dont think it's a big deal.
I see the difference of course but since Lisbon it doesn't apply. It may still be developing but so is the extent of the sharing of sovereignty.
National democracy is more to the point but I'm not a nationalist
And I think I do really get it. The failure to address sovereignty and democracy was the biggest problem by far . Its not that we had no case, we had a strong case. We just never fought for it.
I wouldn't call Meloni a normal right winger, she's been involved with the far right since her mid teens, wasn't she in the MFI youth wing? She was also involved with the National Alliance. Considering her neo Fascist background, I've found her surprisingly restrained wrt her comments in general, actually.
Well she is ultra pro EU and criticized by the alt right for it. Also pro military help to Ukraine, pro Israel, very neo-con normal right
We're having different conversations. I talking about decades or even generations. That the time scale in which politics plays out. Short term election reults aren't relevant - it's like many if us being relived when Obama repalaced an insane nutty regime - it didn't change the underlying dynamics and the symptoms come back harder. We have to actually change things.
Talk of brexit is largely irrelevent as this is real political impact not chatter. It does matter to some extent and in the short t
Then I truly don't understand what you are saying help me understand.
What Brexit did is making it clear to most, even if you are powerful, a nuclear nation, you already have you own currency, have an international network of 10+ countries linked to you on favourable terms (commonwealth) and your language is the most spoken second language worldwide, if you exit is going to be a real pain in the ass.
How did Brexit help "the far right"?? How did it "decrease democracy"?
Btw Obama ordered more extrajudicial assassination of actual enemies of the west than Bush, this is why people like me can like him and people like you don't possibly
Brexit increases nationalism and division. That helps the far right. The far right is an enemy of democracy. That is simple to understand - agree or disagree as you see fit
The problems we need to tackle imo require far more cooperation and far less self-interest. Brexit makes that harder and failures are exploited by the far right who are the enemy of democracy.
USA needs to be stood up to on economics and so much more. Brexit makes that much harder and failures are exploited by the far right who are the enemy of democracy.
Brexit increases nationalism and division. That helps the far right. The far right is an enemy of democracy. That is simple to understand - agree or disagree as you see fit
The problems we need to tackle imo require far more cooperation and far less self-interest. Brexit makes that harder and failures are exploited by the far right who are the enemy of democracy.
USA needs to be stood up to on economics and so much more. Brexit makes that much harder and failures are exploited by the far right who
ah you mean inside the UK lol sorry.
I thought you meant Brexit helped the far right IN THE EU (I. countries staying in the EU). got it.
yes ofc inside the UK Brexit galvanized people, including the far right, who have strong nationalism as their core identity.
but man your polls are the most leftwing polls pre-election like in what, 40 years? 60? you should be thrilled, it's two generations that the left wasn't as strong in popular opinion as it is today.
so I don't get your pessimism. your side in the UK is going to win in a landslide
I mean in every country
My side is barely even running in the next election in the uk
Green party is too much to the right for you? What do you want, Mao resurrected, or that's too moderate?
I sometimes vote green (did just a few days ago). An important group imo but I usually find I have big issues with some of their thinking so want them as a significant pressure group rather than the major party in government.
I want democratic socialism and if I'm lucky I might get to vote that way,. They are not a significant electoral force though - it's all right wing of various flavours
I sometimes vote green (did just a few days ago). An important group imo but I usually find I have big issues with some of their thinking so want them as a significant pressure group rather than the major party in government.
I want democratic socialism and if I'm lucky I might get to vote that way,. They are not a significant electoral force though - it's all right wing of various flavours
The Greens have been a significant force in Scotland for some time, despite feeble poll numbers (in fact they have been the somewhat crazy tail wagging the SNP dog, until Yousaf broke the pact), because of the proportional representation system up there. Which is why proportional representation is a bad idea. It always over-promotes fringe groups, letting them hold the balance of power in a hung parliament and putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum. See under: Israel, where religious far-right settlers always hold the balance of power and dictate policy to everyone else.
