“Death to America”
I’m open to hearing the moral case for allowing people residing in America to chant this and mean it. It’s not just about policing the specific words but rather the spirit and the desire to spread this spirit to others.
Prettu sure chezland is ok with it
although it seems unfair to castigate such a vast area because one part is nuts.
Unless chezland has changed their opinion of free speech, im pretty sure they are not okay with it. But putin also claims to support it while simultaneously clammering doen on it.
speech is free until you say something the rulers disagree with. theres a reason that the Skokie march was allowed and protected but the protests of 2020 and 2024 were violently cracked down on with brutal repression.
Unless chezland has changed their opinion of free speech, im pretty sure they are not okay with it. But putin also claims to support it while simultaneously clammering doen on it.
you probably know better than me but afaik it's not illegal. fwiw I'm ok with it. It's not a vulnerable group
Context matters of course but afiak there would have to be significantly more than just the phrase to be a legal problem.
People have missed the actual point of the OP. Fortunately I have a Craig translator installed on my phone.
He means: is it psychologically healthy for individuals to push for external change and revolution when they are still corrupt mentally themselves?
Essentially he is saying that if you want to change the world first you have to change yourself.
I wouldn’t be in favor of dropping the hammer on offenders. Something more like a warning and then a small fine for people overtly chanting it in public spaces.
The mindset of a morally secure country should be that tearing the country down is never part of a good solution. Deconstruction must be contained within the individual psyche. Projecting it outward isn’t good for the country or the individual.
We don’t want that fascist crap here in America. You’re supposed to have the freedom of speech here but unfortunately Obama showed that was a load of crap.
If you want these kinda rules then move to a more authoritarian nation. It is too dangerous of a thing to have here
FWIW, I think it’s better that my position is the minority position. Still, there need to be morally minded people willing to take the losing position for the sake of the dialogue. Once we reach a tipping point where consensus is on the side of no longer protecting certain hate speech for the sake of national identity, then I’d immediately flip to the other side.
I disagree with the idea that having no national identity is harmless. The leadership definitely need a national identity and there is a minimum threshold among at least a segment of the populace which should be maintained.
I disagree free speech absolutism is the foundation of America. America is based on allegiance to the moral high ground.
The Declaration of Independence was about stating why we had the moral high ground to declare independence. It wasn’t about free speech absolutism.
No, it was about preserving slavery, in defiance of Lord Mansfield's 1772 ruling against slavery in the Somerset v Stewart case in England's Court of Appeal. The Founding Fathers were slavers who very much proposed to carry on slaving.
Not if your employer doesn't like it, because you have at-will employment law, and the First Amendment doesn't apply to employers, only to Federal lawmakers. The free-speech protections under the European Convention on Human Rights are a lot stronger than the First Amendment.
No, it was about preserving slavery, in defiance of Lord Mansfield's 1772 ruling against slavery in the Somerset v Stewart case in England's Court of Appeal. The Founding Fathers were slavers who very much proposed to carry on slaving.
I’ve read through this. It should be part of the discussion, but I’m unconvinced it’s the primary motivation for the DoI.
speech is free until you say something the rulers disagree with. theres a reason that the Skokie march was allowed and protected but the protests of 2020 and 2024 were violently cracked down on with brutal repression.
Can you list me the number of people in jail in the USA because they denied the efficacy of the COVID vaccine? That was something the president admin cared about a lot for various reasons
People have missed the actual point of the OP. Fortunately I have a Craig translator installed on my phone.
He means: is it psychologically healthy for individuals to push for external change and revolution when they are still corrupt mentally themselves?
Essentially he is saying that if you want to change the world first you have to change yourself.
I don't think I did.
He is asking if we could criminalize a behaviour related to speech that he is convinced has significant negative "externalities" (as the technocratic elite would say)
Not if your employer doesn't like it, because you have at-will employment law, and the First Amendment doesn't apply to employers, only to Federal lawmakers. The free-speech protections under the European Convention on Human Rights are a lot stronger than the First Amendment.
Not at all in the slightest this must be some kind of sick joke
Considering every empire has fallen throughout history, this is theoretical, but can a country persist over time with a practically non-existent national identity? My intuition says no.
Not to say that strongly nationalistic countries are stronger; you have to have the right kind of national identity. But having almost no national identity seems like a death sentence.
Canada says Hi.
Not if your employer doesn't like it, because you have at-will employment law, and the First Amendment doesn't apply to employers, only to Federal lawmakers. The free-speech protections under the European Convention on Human Rights are a lot stronger than the First Amendment.
Obama sent people to jail for freedom of speech violations. Chelsea manning is in jail rn I think over freedom of speech stuff
Should the govt be able to make you talk?
Obama sent people to jail for freedom of speech violations. Chelsea manning is in jail rn I think over freedom of speech stuff
Should the govt be able to make you talk?
Manning's out since 2017 and was done for passing documents, some of them classified to wikileaks. I think she might have been charged with aiding the enemy as well.
Obama sent people to jail for freedom of speech violations. Chelsea manning is in jail rn I think over freedom of speech stuff
Should the govt be able to make you talk?
no lol. he distributed classified Intel to people, that's treason-level gravity , freedom of speech doesn't allow you to reveal state secrets ffs.
and he was pardoned by obama.
incredible tbh that he hasn't been executed as a national traitor
sometimes I wonder how it is you can see people be confident in their information and you immediately dismiss it. Then I look at the usernames and realize I am speaking to very smart people
"From March 8, 2019, to March 12, 2020 (except for a week from May 9 to 16), Manning was jailed for contempt and fined $256,000 for refusing to testify before a grand jury investigating WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.[27][28]"
Manning's out since 2017 and was done for passing documents, some of them classified to wikileaks. I think she might have been charged with aiding the enemy as well.
what enemy?
no lol. he distributed classified Intel to people, that's treason-level gravity , freedom of speech doesn't allow you to reveal state secrets ffs.
and he was pardoned by obama.
incredible tbh that he hasn't been executed as a national traitor
define treason pls
The young protestors are right to hate America. The USA is promised to be the shining city on a hill - the example for the world. Currently, America is the man sitting on the throne who is unworthy of his position.
At the same time, America is the boy who is the rightful heir to the throne. The prince who is to be the king of kings. The American citizen who chants “death to America” must become the right-hand-man to the child and raise it with patience and belief.
The American citizen must condemn the unworthy man, face-to-face, then cross over and personally absorb that condemnation for the sake of the child. Whoever does this upholds their end of the social contract.
The young protestors are right to hate America. The USA is promised to be the shining city on a hill - the example for the world. Currently, America is the man sitting on the throne who is unworthy of his position.
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If this was true, people would be fleeing the USA , instead they risk their lives to reach it.
