LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)
Very impressed with the minute sequence where LeBron clearly lost the ball headed to the rim, heat got the ball anyway and scored, then he elbows his defender in the chin, drawing a defensive foul and stern talking to from the official and hitting a 3.
It's these ref assisted 5 point swings in close games that truly bring out the best in great players.
Link to post of why Elon Musk is the true GOAT: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
The thread that will go on for years..........
vs.
putting fall guy on ignore is the smartest thing i've done all year
Compared to the teams that Lebron won with, Jordan's Bulls had zero rim protection, unathletic guards and no scoring help.
When did Lebron win as 1st option without 2 star teammates??... Since he never won as 1st option with just 1 star teammate, he couldn't win with just Pippen... And when did he beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick?... So again, how could he win with Pippen???
Lebron needs guys that are capable of elite production and guys that can match him because Kyrie and Lebron both average 28 ppg for their Finals career - AD and Wade aren't far behind.. This is the caliber of help that Lebron's weaker brand of ball needs - he can't win with just one other star that averages 19 on 42% for their Finals career - this is simply FAR less than what Lebron actually won with.
MJ loses with Dave Corzine - "he needs to make teammates better"
Lebron loses with AD or Wade - "he needs better teammates"
Accordingly, only MJ is required to "make teammates better", while everyone else's losses are blamed on needing more help.
And history shows that Orlando Woolridge achieved a career high alongside rookie MJ in 85'... Sam Vincent, Oakley, Pippen, Grant and BJ also grew by leaps and bounds and achieved career highs - so there was never a point where MJ "didn't make teammates better", which is why the instant he got a modicum of help, he was unbeatable - he quickly proved all the narratives wrong and showed that he just needed a tiny bit of help..
Otoh, zero young players grew from low producer to meaningful producer on Lebron's watch.. He also imposes spot-up roles on veterans and often has bad fits, so Lebron is actually the guy that doesn't make teammates better and has zero young player development in 21 years.
Btw, MJ was nearly beating the Bad Boys with no help in 89' before Phil arrived and they might have won that year if Pippen didn't miss game 6 of the ECF (the "real" migraine) - people simply don't realize that Phil inherited a team on the cusp of a title... Yet Phil was excused for losing in 1990 due to the "migraine", while Collins was fired despite having a much worse version of Pippen... So all the narratives about Jordan were wrong.. Heck, he knew how to win as a freshman at North Carolina, while Ant was 5-13 in the SEC as a freshman and was a massive loser until this season.. At no point in Ant's career is he anywhere near MJ.
since joining 2p2 less than a year ago, all but 3 of fg's posts have been in this thread. i can only assume the others were in a lebron-specific thread. since sep '23 he has accounted for 28% of posts ITT and 77% of total words posted. that is dedication. #advancedthreadanalytics
Some people have the fire.
since joining 2p2 less than a year ago, all but 3 of fg's posts have been in this thread. i can only assume the others were in a lebron-specific thread. since sep '23 he has accounted for 28% of posts ITT and 77% of total words posted. that is dedication. #advancedthreadanalytics
This is his containment thread.
His 3 posts were in the NBA thread (about Jordan of course). I temp banned him 48 hours and if he were to enter that thread again to spew Jordan GOAT nonsense he will be permabanned.
BTW, He's been banned well over 100 times.
You can't ban away mental illness
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Here's a relevant thread from another forum where the poster cannot understand how the Mavs won with Luka and Kyrie playing badly:
If the poster in that forum read this thread, he would know that ball-domination is easy to beat - you don't need a lot to beat it.. Ball-domination is a crap brand of ball and this is further evidence..
See that's why I have to post - all the real world events support my prognostications and perceptions of how things work and what will happen.
In this case, SGA is a massive ball-dominator, so it he lost as the favorite just like Lebron in 2009 - you don't need a lot to beat this inferior brand of ball.. 1-star teams like Dwight's Magic or Luka's Mavs is more than enough - they don't even need 7 games.. (fyi Kyrie was MIA in this series)
Now let's watch the Nuggets do the same thing that the Mavs just did - let's watch the Nuggets not need to play great to beat Luka-ball.
He doesn't really count the 2013 title because Ray Allen made a clutch shot and since it wasn't Lebron it's a fake ring
I guess that's the #1 reason MJ is GOAT - everyone else is carried compared to him - this would be the worst series of Jordan's career when you consider everything.
It's Boston's title to lose
KAT, Gobert, McDaniels, Conley = Finals loss to the mighty Jayson Tatum
Pippen, Cartwright, Horace, Paxson = 3-peat over Magic, Drexler, Barkley
That's the difference between a 6'4" rudimentary shot-maker with baby steps and baby hands compared to a 6'6" guy that can get to the rim with 1 dribble and has infinite shot-making ability..
Btw, do you guys realize that Jordan averages more than twice the offensive rebounds as Ant? (1.6 to 0.7)... Jordan is a big man compared to Ant and has the all-round advantage that you guys say Lebron has, AND the massive scoring advantage that he always has on everyone... Ant's a shrimp that will get locked up in the Finals.
The whole "won't win another game" prediction was out on a limb for sure, but the overall point remains the same - SGA, Luka and Ant are in the same boat, aka LOSERS, while the only non-ball-dominant player left (Tatum) will come out on top.
You can predict the winners by sorting time of possession in reverse - that means that Tatum wins this year, just like Jokic won last year, and Curry the year before that... Generally, non-ball-dominant players have better teams than ball-dominant players because they allow the ball to move - this fosters great chemistry, which allows a great-performing cast, aka great team.
And ball-dominators can't win organically and never have - Magic forced his way to join Kareem, while Lebron obviously formed super-teams too.. Ball-dominators impose spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (can't win organically).. btw, Isiah wasn't a ball-dominator, similar to Curry and Parker - they all had low time of possession for point guards.
Haliburton somewhere in the thread title between Wembo and LeBron soon
Jokic and 'team chemistry' ball surrenders the largest game 7 lead in NBA history to Antman and downhill bully 'needs more help' ball. Shocking.
The bar for Jokic to get back in the thread title should be high - higher than the standard he will be held to for this loss compared to LeBron (can you imagine?).
Jokic is never returning to the thread title.
Jokic and 'team chemistry' ball surrenders the largest game 7 lead in NBA history to Antman and downhill bully 'needs more help' ball. Shocking.
The bar for Jokic to get back in the thread title should be high - higher than the standard he will be held to for this loss compared to LeBron (can you imagine?).
Almost like it’s harder to win tons of championships in the modern era with a much deeper international talent pool, free agency, intensity of play, upcoming CBA rules etc. can’t stand around and watch isolation against expansion players with a shortened 3 point line.
But either way, Jokic lost a playoff series as a -175 favorite or better so he’s automatically disqualified from being the GOAT - those are the rules, with 1995 Bulls Magic being the exception.
Jokic and 'team chemistry' ball surrenders the largest game 7 lead in NBA history to Antman and downhill bully 'needs more help' ball. Shocking.
The bar for Jokic to get back in the thread title should be high - higher than the standard he will be held to for this loss compared to LeBron (can you imagine?).
Guys let’s pump the brakes a bit. We have been assUred by the nephews that be that only Leb0rn fans understand that “variance is a thing”.
Jokic is a 3 time MVP and team success is only variance. Much like leb0rn, Jokic does not have any help and his loss here is just variance.
Once you take into account the fact that the league is exp0nentially better now with more internat1onal players and thus greater competition than LeBon had in the ‘00’s and ‘10’s, and the advanced $tat$ of the Joker (u guys remember advanced $tat$, right lol?), Nikola Jokic is easily the GOAT. Based on the arguments laid forth previously in this thread, of course. Based on that.
Can we get a list of ball dominant vs. non ball dominant stars for future reference? Tatum is confusing to me since the single biggest criticism of his game is that he sometimes goes Kobe wannabe in crunch time.
Can we get a list of ball dominant vs. non ball dominant stars for future reference? Tatum is confusing to me since the single biggest criticism of his game is that he sometimes goes Kobe wannabe in crunch time.
In case anyone's wondering what twog means, he's referring to players that effectively utilize fancy handle and dribble moves to create shots. This class of players, especially if they are wings rather than natural point guards, seems to cause a lot of distress for twog. In twog's mind, doing this is really bad, though somehow post-ups are exempt from this criticism.
He has this weird grudge about modern players who can make something happen with the ball from the perimeter and makes up weird n
SGA is one of the least ball-dominant superstars in this game and also literally plays (really well) in an offense that's designed to move the ball a ton, but I guess a super-skilled 6-6 point guard is sufficiently triggering for twog.
Guys let’s pump the brakes a bit. We have been assUred by the nephews that be that only Leb0rn fans understand that “variance is a thing”.
Jokic is a 3 time MVP and team success is only variance. Much like leb0rn, Jokic does not have any help and his loss here is just variance.
Once you take into account the fact that the league is exp0nentially better now with more internat1onal players and thus greater competition than LeBon had in the ‘00’s and ‘10’s, and the advanced $tat$ of the Joker (u guys
Nice try sir, good effort, etc
Never forget that TWOG handwaved away Nuggets' 45-point loss as a meaningless "giveway" game, but I'm sure he has more excuses for the Nuggets losing game 7 at home too and failing to win 2 closeout games.
Not a good look for the Jokic > LeBron take. Please write more essays about "ball dominance" TWOG. I'm sure everyone is DYING to read them.
I'm looking at the points algorithm now and when Antman titles in two weeks he takes the number one spot.
