A perfect god?

FellaGaga-52:

Scriptures says that with the exception of Noah, his wife, and his three sons and their wives (eight people in total) everybody else was considered wicked, and so Jehovah decided to destroy them.

"{5}Consequently, Jehovah saw that man's wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time.... {11} But the earth had become ruined in the sight of the true God, and the earth was filled with violence. {12} Yes, God looked upon the earth, and it was ruined; all flesh had ruined its way on the earth." (Genesis 6:5, 11, 12 -- New World Translation)

But even then, as an act of love, Jehovah sent warnings to these awful people of his intention. He warned them before he acted, thereby giving them the opportunity to repent. He did this by sending Noah to preach repentance to them year in and year out. They refused to repent.

"{8} But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah. {9} This is the history of Noah. Noah was a righteous man. He proved himself faultless among his contemporaries. Noah walked with the true God. {10} In time Noah became father to three sons, Shem, Ham, and Jaʹpheth.... {13} After that God said to Noah: “I have decided to put an end to all flesh, because the earth is full of violence on account of them, so I am bringing them to ruin together with the earth." (Genesis 6:8, 9, 10, 13 -- New World Translation)

Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

Montrealcorp:

You are blaming the wrong individual, namely: Jehovah. Instead, you should be blaming the first human, Adam.

Every single human inherited sin and death from Adam when he and his wife, Eve, rebelled against God in the Garden of Eden. Adam was instructed not to eat from a specific tree while being told he could eat from all of the other trees in the Garden of Eden. He went ahead and ate from the forbidden tree anyway.

"{8} Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in Eʹden, toward the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed. {9} Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad. {15} Jehovah God took the man and settled him in the garden of E'den to cultivate it and to take care of it. {16} Jehovah God also gave this command to the man: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. {17} But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die." (Genesis 2:8, 9, 15, 16, 17)

Adam abused his free will by using it to rebel against the Almighty by him and his wife Eve partaking of the forbidden fruit. Their act of rebellion resulted in the death sentence because they had sinned against God. When they rebelled, they became imperfect. Since they did not yet have any children prior to their rebellion, all of their future offspring would inherit sin and death from them. That's the situation that all humanity has been in ever since.

Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

Montrealcorp:

Nobody knows how long the six creative days lasted in the book of Genesis. For a fact they would not have been 24 literal human hours. Why so? Because Jehovah God, being eternal (without beginning or end), does not operate on human time spans.

There's no need for the Genesis account of the six creative days to even be in conflict with the scientific conclusion that the age of the earth is about four and a half billion years. According to the Bible, the earth existed for an unstated period before the creative days began.

Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

Again, people were guilty by association and not by actually what they done …..
Awesome rule of law from god .

I love the fact we have free will for no reason since we already guilty of the sins of our ancestors …

Anyway , after thousands of gods dying over many millenniums years, I’m happy for you u believe to have found THE right one amongst all of them .
Enjoy .

Montrealcorp:

Guilt by association requires the parties to all be present at the same time in order to be "in association" with one another.

Meaning of Guilt by Association:
"The idea that an individual is guilty of a crime because he associates with the person who actually committed it."
https://legaldictionary.net/guilt-by-ass...

None of Adam's future offspring could have possibly been in association with him since they weren't even born yet.

When Adam rebelled against the Almighty, he committed deliberate sin because he chose to rebel despite have a clear mind. He thereafter immediately became imperfect and began to die. All he could subsequently pass on to his future offspring was imperfection and death.

"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—." (Romans 5:12 -- New World Translation)

Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

Montrealcorp:

None of us are guilty of the sins of our ancestors. We were born imperfect, because that's what we inherited from Adam. But all of us were also born with free will. Free will gives us the ability to make choices. We can choose to do right or choose to do wrong, based on God's requirements.

Jehovah has opened a way for sinful mankind to redeem themselves from Adamic sin and death. That's why he sent his beloved son, Jesus Christ, to pay the ransom price and redeem those who are repentant.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16 -- King James Bible)

Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

It says nothing about a covenant ending in the old Testament. It says follow this until the end of time

So God was wrong? Or he changed his mind?

Adonai obviously wanted adam to eat the forbidden for since he is perfect. Su why would anyone blame adam

If not literal day, why does it mention evening and morning for each one

metsandfinsfan:

The term "evening" and "morning" indicates the progression of time during any day, including one of the six creative days in Genesis. You have to remember that the Bible was written as God's conversation with humans. So Jehovah inspired Moses (the writer of Genesis) to used terminology that humans can relate to, enabling mankind to understand that a particular creative day had a beginning period a middle period and an end period. But how many years each creative day lasted is unknown.

In the Judeo-Christian Bible, the word "day" was used for units of time of varying length. In the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) as well as in the Greek Scriptures (New Testament) the word "day" (Heb., yohm; Gr., he·meʹra) is used in a symbolic way as well as in in a literal and in a figurative sense.

There are instances in the Bible where the word "day" is used to indicate a measure of distance. Take, for example, the expressions "a day's journey" in the Old Testament/Hebrew Scriptures, quoted below:

"Then a wind from Jehovah sprang up and began driving quail from the sea and causing them to fall around the camp, about a day’s journey on this side and a day’s journey on the other side, all around the camp, and they were about two cubits deep on the ground." (Numbers 11:31)

Now, look at the example below taken from the New Testament/Greek Scriptures distance is involved while using the word "day."

"Then they returned to Jerusalem from a mountain called the Mount of Olives, which is near Jerusalem, only a sabbath day’s journey away." (Acts 1:12)

The term day(s) is also used in the Bible when referring to periods of time that are directly in reference to a time period contemporaneous with a particular person. Notice the two scriptures quoted below.

"Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man:" (Luke 17:26)

At Luke 17:26, we would understand that to mean that it's talking about the lifetime of Noah, not a few literal 24-hour days.

"The vision that Isaiah the son of A'moz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uz·zi'ah, Jo'tham, A'haz, and Hez·e·ki'ah, kings of Judah:" (Isaiah 1:1)

Likewise, at Isaiah 1:1, we would understand that to mean that the vision that was seen by the Prophet Isaiah involved the lifetimes of Uz·zi'ah, Jo'tham, A'haz, and Hez·e·ki'ah, kings of Judah who directly succeeded each other on the throne. Logic would tell us that Isaiah wasn't referring to a few literal 24-hour days in light of the fact Uzziah ruled as king for 52 years, and upon his death, his son Jothan began ruling. Then when Jotham's kingship ended, Jotham's son, Ahaz, became king. Finally, when Ahaz ceased being king of Judah, Ahaz's son, Hezekiah began ruling.

Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

Yeah, Adam was disobedient and ate an apple (excuse me, a piece of fruit), and Jehovah slaughtered millions of children, babies, and fetuses ... and some of us are having trouble determining which is more wrong. The reason they have that trouble is that the very abject obedience they believe would be a virtue in Adam, is the same obedience they have going on in their head when they read about god's slaughter. Therefore, they cannot bring themselves to say: "Hmm. Maybe, just maybe, this is an old barbaric myth made up by superstitious barbarians, and maybe, just maybe, such a slaughter of children is not right."

They can't go there because they are so morally obedient. Meanwhile, the thinking world knows that any form of abject obedience is not moral, but in fact is immoral. So you gotta think like a child ... and if god wants to murder millions its automatically good. I got news for you ... it's a disgraceful doctrine. And if that doesn't make him a mass killer, one's mind is twisted into superstitious gobbledy gunk in place of reality. "Never mind reality," says religion, if I don't mind quoting myself ... "never mind reality, this is a supernatural belief system. And the slaughter of children is cool in it. Because they inherited evil." THAT'S MADE UP. It's not part of reality; it's part of one of the untold amount of god and religious STORIES.

When one refuses to call an obvious religious story a story and substitutes it for reality, they have sacrificed mind, morality, agency, truth, and reality to the myth, with the reason being, "Well, it's in a book written thousands of years ago. I'll believe and recite its doctrine before I believe that killing millions of children is wrong. A-motherblanking-men."

It's a story, it's a story, it's a story. Everything you are reciting in the doctrine is part of a story.

absolutely not....
there is not time frame about it.

But in the bible they use real days tho yah ?

At every turn as to how god operates, it's magic, magic, magic. Why is that? Might it be that the story originated in a magic revering culture, and in order to wow people with a religion, you needed to keep trumping other's magic claims?

How did god create the world? "Oh. That was by magic. He just said the word and 'poof' ... it happened."

How did god come to earth in the flesh? "Well. That was by magic. He impregnated a woman supernaturally. Obviously we can't have sex creating our god. That's dirty."

How did they survive that storm on the sea? "Oh. That was by magic. Jesus lifted his hand and the winds obeyed."

How did he feed the 5,000? "Oh. That was by magic. The fish just kept multiplying for as long as he needed."

How did Jesus heal the sick? "Oh. That was by magic. He just touched them, they touched his robe, he commanded it, etc."

How did they survive death? "Oh. That's very supernatural. You know how the Egyptian Pharaoh's were jettisoned to Orion. It's like that. Magic."

How did he walk on water? "Oh. Magic. He has magical abilities like that. And since other god's claimed such a power, we had to match it when we designed this religion."

How did he turn water into wine? "By magic."

How did he heal the blind? "Well, he wasn't into ophthalmology or anything like that. Even though he was omniscient, he decided to use dirt and magic to heal the blind."

How did he part the Red Sea? "Well, you know. There's a pattern developing here. He did it by magic."

A magic story is a magic story and it isn't anything else.

Well, you showed your hand very nicely. Couldn't be more stark.

Magic: the apparent power to influence events using mysterious or supernatural forces. So we see that miracle fits nicely under the magic umbrella. You know, the one they believed in literally and fervently in the 1st Century, when they were concocting the miracle claims. To the literal magic believing mind of the 1st Century, miracles are "magic by god."

That man hasn't produced life in the lab is "proof positive" that Jehovah did it is just you bearing false witness ... blindly, desperately, stubbornly, dogmatically, religiously, stupidly. I am glad to know what I am up against, you showed your hand so clearly in that post. As in "It doesn't bother me to blatantly lie and misrepresent in support of my beliefs. That's what I do. Amen."

Jehovah is a false god propped up by the real God, who is hidden. While some aspects of God are revealed through Jehovah, Christians should stop worshipping him and follow Christ.

FellaGaga-52:

Since you raised the topic of magic and you said you were told that the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible used magic to create our universe (in reality he performed miracles), how do you suppose evolution's supposed "common biological ancestor" came to life from non-life so that evolution could proceed? A few years ago, I raised that question in my thread entitled Genesis Creation vs. Darwin's Macroevolution Myth. Not a single atheist that showed up in the thread could give me a logical explanation for how life could have resulted from non-life by itself (abiogenesis) after I pointed out to them that abiogenesis theory was debunked more than 150 years ago. They made a point of dodging the issue by insisting abiogenesis is not part of evolution theory.

Because you have taken it upon yourself to show up in the RELIGION forum to argue against the existence of the Divine Creator aka Jehovah God, I invite you to enter my Evolution Myth thread and see if you can tackle the problem of abiogenesis as well as the problem of the gaps in the fossils record. Here is the weblink to the thread.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/137/r...

While you're at it, be sure and come to my thread dealing with how the fine-tuning or precision seen in our universe is evidence for the existence of an Intelligent Designer who intervened and guided the outcome. Here's the weblink to that thread.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/137/r...

I will post parts, or all, of your last comment to both threads so that you will have the option of joining the discussion in that manner.

Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

FellaGaga-52:

The definition of magic that you presented above is not helping your lame argument that, to quote you: "miracle fits nicely under the magic umbrella." In fact, you shot yourself in the foot when you used that definition. You know why? Because it uses the word apparent.

Look up the word "apparent" in any dictionary and you will see that one of its definitions will say something like this: "seeming real or true, but not necessarily so." Compare that with the definition of "miracle" which affirmatively says:

"1 : an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs." (Source Webster's Dictionary)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona...

"an unusual and mysterious event that is thought to have been caused by a god because it does not follow the usual laws of nature:" (Source: Cambridge Dictionary)
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/diction...

"A miracle is a wonderful and surprising event that is believed to be caused by God." (Source: Collins Dictionary)
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictio...

miracle noun​ "[countable] an act or event that does not follow the laws of nature and is believed to be caused by God." (Source: Oxford Dictionary)
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.c...

Your insistence that "miracle fits nicely under the magic umbrella" is your desperate attempt at getting two words with different meanings to line up with your personal philosophy that Jehovah and his Son Jesus Christ performed magic (or at least that's what you claim somebody told you).

I gave you the definition of "magic" from two sources and both of them made it clear that magic and miracle do not have the same meaning. Both dictionaries indicate that the word "magic" amounts to illusions (something that is not real) and tricks.

Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

FellaGaga-52:

You are hardly in a position to accuse anyone of "bearing false witness ... blindly, desperately, stubbornly, dogmatically, religiously, stupidly," when all you've got is evolution theory and Big Bang theory aka fairytales.

You have no logical explanation for why man has never been able to produce life from non-life. That raises the question: "How did life get here?"

You cannot overcome the fact that things in the natural world are far superior to the copied versions of the same things that humans made. Logic says that if the inferior manmade copies required intelligent designers (humans) then the far more superior natural designs had to have required a Divine Intelligent Designer aka God. Deal with that.

BTW: insulting me by posting hysterical comments such as the one you posted above will not help you to overcome the fact that our fine-tuned universe could not have happened by itself. I've debated atheists for more than a decade. I am familiar with their behavior, their resorting to schoolyard insults whenever they realize they're not winning a particular argument.

Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18

You're an insult even to irrationality, a compendium of scientific ignorances, a denier that killing every infant on earth is immoral, a massive presuppositionalist who imagines that anyone that doesn't have a pat presuppositional "answer" is inferior to your presupposition, a science denier, an intentionally ignorant indoctrination spieler. That's about it for now. It's like you went back to kindergarten and started with, "Okay, what are all the arguments utterly vacuous and already fully debunked? Let's start with them and just double and triple down and call it a defense of our supernatural beliefs." I'm sorry. I feel about like John McEnroe: "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!" And you aren't. You're zealous, but not serious.

Wow we have a Jehovah is almighty god/isn't almighty god debate in the house. But just ask them who the god is, how they know, how the god communicates with them ... and you get a deafening, revealing silence.

They and you believe that magic is real, dumbass. And you don't even know it. The whole religion works by supernatural magic, claimed to be actual and literal. When they fashioned the religions of antiquity they didn't know the difference between literal and illusory magic powers, and they just incorporated them right in in their "my god is greater than yours" magic powers claims. A miracle is first and foremost something inexplicable or outside of natural law ... then often attributed to divinities of all sorts. It all comes under the category of BS in a vague, ridiculous "magic = miracle = supernatural = voila religion!" equation.

Only those with ears to hear will listen. As has already been revealed, the father and son are one. Whoever unifies with the son unifies with the father.

FellaGaga-52:

I am exiting this thread because the OP is about "A perfect god" and not about the issues I've raised with you. I am not in the habit of hijacking other people's threads.

I have posted my response to one of your above comments in my thread entitled Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Evolution? To find it, click the following weblink, and it will take you directly to my response.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Alter2Ego

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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18