Bluff line 5/10
V (CO) is halfway decent rec, a bit too abc and passive but no obvious big leaks otherwise
Hero (btn) been somewhat card dead, so been tight pre, but very aggressive, and won basically every hand ive played, probably tag image
$3k effective
CO raises $30
Btn calls A9o
Flop ($75) 245r V bets $40, i raise $140 (thought process, V probably range betting, i have overs + gutshot, also ace high might be good, and id like to fold out 6s for when the 3 comes), V calls
Turn ($355) Jd (brings fd), check, hero bets $500 (continuing line, also 66-TT and random overs maybe folding when the J peels), V calls
River ($1355) 6d, check, hero bets $525 (i was thinking im repping flopped sets and semi bluffs with a 3, and the small sizing seems like a good way to rep those hands as being good enough to bet, but being scared of a flush)
Thoughts on any street welcome.
My problem is not that prefob is slightly off so it doesn't fit in with some GTO model The problem is it's a dripping wet board where every Ace or pocket pair has something And it heavily favors your opponent's range And then you go blasting off for 4 bets with Almost the worst possible hand you can have
gto doesnt cbet flop, so we cant rely on theory. Preflop I think is a spot to play as close to gto as possible, and I ****ed up, fine. Moving on. That was the least interesting part of this hand, and its all anyone wants to talk about, lets give me ATo, the postflop decisions would barely change.
Also call me old school, but the proper way to analyze a hand is to put V on a range. That is EXACTLY what gto does. It puts its opponent on a range (both at the decision point as well as their continuing range if they face a bet) and reacts accordingly. Its unreasonable for us to take GTO’s range in a spot as the definitive range for a rec (as proven by uh… him cbetting when GTO cbets 0%, and we cant put him on a range of no hands.)
Like, lets put him A2s+, K3s+, Q5s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, 22+, A8o+. Whats he cbetting with? Whats he calling the raise with? Whats he calling the turn bet with? Whats he calling the river with?
Yeah, I don't think this is a good cbet for villain with many hands. Does the solver say it is a pure check? I would cbet it though if I hit with a straight or set or with AA with the gutshot.
I don't mind this line as a bluff with some hands, but I would prefer a stronger draw. You can win a lot by raising the flop and betting two more streets, but there are probably better board and hand combinations to do that with.
Solver has it as a pure check for V, likely due to being oop.
The solver says it is a pure check to protect your checking range by checking straights, sets and AA. However, in practice you way make more with those hands by cbetting and getting someone to raise and keep firing with an ace or whatever like here.
The solver says it is a pure check to protect your checking range by checking straights, sets and AA. However, in practice you way make more with those hands by cbetting and getting someone to raise and keep firing with an ace or whatever like here.
Are you saying you expect this V only cbets with 2p+ in order to induce a wide range of bluffs? Im trying to put V on a range, not figure out what i should do in Vs shoes.
The timed format definitely makes preflop less bad, but postflop is still not great. "Folding out 6x for when the 3 comes" is not a strategy.
Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk
The timed format definitely makes preflop less bad, but postflop is still not great. "Folding out 6x for when the 3 comes" is not a strategy.
Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk
just as an example, btn raises, bb calls, flop 765dd, GTO utg bets A4 more than any hand except for set+. Not knowing a strategy doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Pretty sure i heard about it from an upswing podcast.
just as an example, btn raises, bb calls, flop 765dd, GTO utg bets A4 more than any hand except for set+. Not knowing a strategy doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Pretty sure i heard about it from an upswing podcast.
So in your example I am unclear why UTG is mentioned since it is a BTN vs BB spot, did I miss something?
It's okay to have a raising range on the flop in the hand you posted, but imo you are doing it with the wrong hand is all.
I get that you are raising to deny equity, but we need to think about our hand's properties and how best to utilize them.
Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk
Are you saying you expect this V only cbets with 2p+ in order to induce a wide range of bluffs? Im trying to put V on a range, not figure out what i should do in Vs shoes.
No, I personally would only cbet straights, sets, and AA, but that is unbalanced and exploitable, not the way a solver plays.
Villain likely doesn't know solver ranges much, and it is hard to determine his range.
There is a problem of what you are representing. Villain can have a straight, set, or JJ+, but if you are playing reasonable ranges, you can't have any of those. So what big hand are you playing so strongly?
So in your example I am unclear why UTG is mentioned since it is a BTN vs BB spot, did I miss something?
It's okay to have a raising range on the flop in the hand you posted, but imo you are doing it with the wrong hand is all.
I get that you are raising to deny equity, but we need to think about our hand's properties and how best to utilize them.
Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk
So first you said the strategy doest exist, and now you have an opinion on when the strategy that you formerly didnt know existed should be used? I was just quickly giving an example of gto betting the low end of a 1 card oesd (which is stronger than betting the high end because of folding out the gutshot that beats you instead of the one that loses to you). I have no intention of writing a dissertation for your benefit, if youd like to know more, go research the topic.
There is a problem of what you are representing. Villain can have a straight, set, or JJ+, but if you are playing reasonable ranges, you can't have any of those. So what big hand are you playing so strongly?
Heh well weve already determined that im not playing reasonable ranges 😀
22-55 and A3 all continue 100% in nl500 on gtowizard (it doesnt have a rake free option, this is the lowest rake), mostly as a call. JJ also raises 46% and calls 54%.
Heh well weve already determined that im not playing reasonable ranges 😀
22-55 and A3 all continue 100% in nl500 on gtowizard (it doesnt have a rake free option, this is the lowest rake), mostly as a call. JJ also raises 46% and calls 54%.
So even if you are calling with A3s and any pp, he may not think so. It doesn't make sense to play JJ so strong here when he can have higher pps, sets, and straights.
