Integrating Negro League Stats With MLB Stats
https://www.baseball-reference.com/negro...
1.) How are they gauging minimum plate appearances to qualify for the rates lists?
2.) Ken Rosenthal wrote that Babe Ruth didn't face great pitching, either, in response to criticism of Josh Gibson's competition. Was Babe's competition really bad? Besides Lefty Grove, I'm struggling to find the truly great AL pitchers of his time.
3.) I'm uncomfortable with certain arguments. Namely the ones that reduce the claim to: "Black people are bad pitchers" and all of the counter-arguments that omit the success, contributions, and representations of Afro-Latinos to MLB, post-integration
4.) Oh, and the "What next? Japanese stats?!" argument feels stupid on purpose.
I was vehemently against this before I was for it, and that was after reading the articles in the link I posted at the top of this post.
Is the sample small? Yes.
Is the sample noteworthy because the samples are over time? Probably not.
Is there a good reason why the samples are small? No.
And that "no" is why I resort to just accepting that it's all we have by no fault of the players, so I agree that keeping Negro League stats out of the official records is a double penalty.
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There were 7 different leagues(National, Federal, American, etc.) that were listed as official USA#1 leagues stats. Now there are 8. I don't care, they were good players too, just not as well documented.
Easy solution would be for MLB to keep MLB stats, potentially only after the 1903 agreement, and other historians who want to keep stats for all "pro baseball in the US and Canada" do that.
If you include random stuff like the Federal Leagues there's no good reason not to include the negro leagues.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/negro...
2.) Ken Rosenthal wrote that Babe Ruth didn't face great pitching, either, in response to criticism of Josh Gibson's competition. Was Babe's competition really bad? Besides Lefty Grove, I'm struggling to find the truly great AL pitchers of his time.
Walter Johnson.
I have nothing useful to add to this thread, but it reminded me of a Simpsons episode:
I would have been enthusiastically for this if Hank Aaron had 8 home runs in the negro leagues.
Sadly, he only had 5. Even those won't count because they happened after integration of MLB.
Mays also played in the Negro League, but never homered there. He's also still alive.
On a related note, in the NHL Alex Ovechkin is nearing Wayne Gretzky's all time goals record. But Gretzky scored 46 goals in the WHL (for the Edmonton Oilers) before they moved to the NHL for his 'rookie' year in the NHL in which he scored 51. It seems Gretzky is shortchanged here, since the WHL was a competitor to the NHL at that time and Gretzky's goal record doesn't get that season.
Mays also played in the Negro League, but never homered there. He's also still alive.
On a related note, in the NHL Alex Ovechkin is nearing Wayne Gretzky's all time goals record. But Gretzky scored 46 goals in the WHL (for the Edmonton Oilers) before they moved to the NHL for his 'rookie' year in the NHL in which he scored 51. It seems Gretzky is shortchanged here, since the WHL was a competitor to the NHL at that time and Gretzky's goal record doesn't get that season.
Bobby Hull had 913, including WHA
