Ongoing VP TR, PART 2!

Final day

Days like this always fill me with dread. It's like I just showed up in the sense I'm dead even. IF I had just showed up, I'd be super excited to play and wouldn't sweat a loss whatsoever. However, having had my shots and hit lots of stuff, I feel like I've used up all my chances at a win. I'm probably going to go home stuck, and I'm going to be upset.

That being said, let's try and coast into the finish line and see what happens.

I start at UX and lose. Move to spin and lose. Move to multi line and lose. I figure I'm down about 10k when I see dealt quads number 6!

Spoiler

Show

Finally!!!! Premiums again!

Before the kicker draw, I remind myself that I wasted my 17k hit just a few days ago. Somehow, I've picked up dealt premiums on this machine again. I'm not wasting this one, no matter what.

Result-

Spoiler

Show

Saved. Exact same amount as last time, not a bad draw at all.

I keep going and give some back, then move to an old school machine and try and slow it down.

D and I are eating at Terrace Pointe Cafe. I only booked this to change it up a bit. In general this place is not as good as Tableau or Jardin. I'm going to get something a little different just to see if it's worth it. If today isn't great, I'm going to lay off this place for a while again.

I go with the BBQ brisket benedict. It sounds better than it was. It wasn't bad but the sauce was (predictably) too sweet. 7/10.

After breakfast, D and I hit craps and shocking, it's bad again. I think I'm even for the trip now. Back to VP- pleasepleaseplease be good!

Just coasting and giving a little back, then dealt quads number 7!

Spoiler

Show

ARGH NOW IS NOT THE TIME FOR MEH!

Of course that's not enough. We lose in hi limit and I head over to spin for one last try.

This is the only hit. D and I keep going for a while but at some point we're down 10k again. I can't stand this. We've got an early afternoon flight, let's call it and grab some lunch. I suppose I can live with that. Once D and I settle up and I pay him his share, it turns out I'm actually down 12k. Bleh. We go to Red 8.

I know I keep grabbing the seabass here, but I just can't help myself. SO GOOD.

Day 4 result- -12k
Overall- -12k
dealt quads- 7

Conclusion and postscript

As can probably be seen, this trip was not very fun for me. I can't believe I was dealt quads 7 times, 3 premiums, and once with a kicker, and STILL LOST!!! There is clearly too much money being dumped back. If I look back at my play (more on this later), the results speak for themselves. Way too many "3k at UX, 3k at spin, 3k at multiline, oh look I'm down almost 10k" sessions. I've never been good at cutting things off earlier, got a little better for a while, and have started slipping again. I've got to be better about locking in small wins.

Clearly, this was just another busted slot tournament which comes with its own disappointment as well. D and I were really looking forward to this one, and even though we knew the likely outcome was nothing, this was the first time for us we had 50% of each other... no good.

Finally... after the trip I asked my host's assistant to give the final bill. She asks me how I'd like to cover the cabana- room charge or comp dollars (different than host comp). Wait. That's not a good question- I thought the cabana was comped!

After a ton of back and forth which extended into the week after my trip, I finally figure out what is going on. The Wynn will NOT be comping the cabana. I spoke with my host and obv was very upset- my understanding was I could always get a cabana upfront, no questions asked. Guess what, the Wynn is continuing to scale back comps, and my host can't give me anything upfront- "he needs to look at my play after". I haven't scaled back my play, but apparently I'm not getting a cabana this time.

Super pissed, I decide to use comp dollars. I contact my host's assistant (amazing person, wish SHE was a host) to let her know. Here's the thing- I have a family trip with B's family lined up for June. It's going to be a big trip- 2 2bd suites, multiple limo rides, cabana, etc. All previously approved by host. So assistant says "I just want to let you know the second 2bd room is NOT being comped". WTF!!!!!

OK, how much are the rooms? Maybe this is doable. 3k a NIGHT?!?! Are you F'ing kidding me- this is a family that probably wouldn't pay 300 a night. The Wynn is absolutely outrageous if you pay retail. I'm PISSED. Lots of runaround from the host, but finally- same answer. They're cutting back comps, they can't guarantee anything up front, despite me asking MULTIPLE TIMES if this would be comped he IMPLIED yes but technically never said yes, he said "sure I'll book it". They can't cover all the limos we'll need. Cabana we already know what might happen. My friends' trip just got changed a TON- and they've already bought plane tickets, booked their nanny etc.

FFFFFFFFFFF

So... I hate the Wynn so much at this point. I hate my host. He's so frickin' vague and almost purposefully obtuse when it suits his purposes. I look at my work schedule (completely unrelated) and see- I have two 4 day breaks in a row coming up! Meaning, off 4 days, work one day, off another 4 days. So weird but the computer schedule does weird things sometimes. Then, I get murdered in June, until the family trip (which is now totally messed up). Meanwhile, I need revenge on the Wynn after this trip...

I'm coming back. 2 weeks after the slot tournament (this second trip just happened FYI). I arrange a trip 5/30-6/2. Goals- talk to host and make sure he knows I'm ready to leave the Wynn. I manage to twist D's arm to go YET AGAIN so hopefully we can have some fun too. And of course, the main goal is GET REVENGE ON THE WYNN. So, the second part of this two trip TR will be up soon!

Oh BTW, obv I have been talking with a host at Fountainbleau as well, since I might be moving over there... that's TBD as well.

Thanks for reading and to be continued...

Really enjoyed that read.

Best of luck with the host scenario.
Vague bastards gonna vague

Yeah, best of luck with the hosts, leon. It is, unfortunately, a transactional world often.

Thanks for the report Leon. Agree it might be time to shop your play around.

I had the exact same thing happen to me at MGM Rewards but obviously on a way smaller scale. I logged in this week and my comps are slashed which is absolutely outrageous as my coin-in was high last trip and on top of that I had multiple 8-10 hours of blackjack at $100-$600 a hand for two full weeks. I should have seen my rates go up a lot based off my theo, and now they are the worst I have ever seen since I started going 7-8 years ago.

Sad to say that Vegas seems to be changing. It’s not that I can’t afford 2-3 trips a year from Europe, but with these rates it’s just not worth it so from now I’ll just go once a year and hop hotels to maximise the little comps I have left like crazy.

I don't think giving them more action is Revenge.

Sucks to hear they're cutting back on you. Still shocked you aren't full RFB and "get whatever you want within reason" at Wynn given your level of play & you don't ever seem to gouge them on comps.

And yes, Wynn retail is absolutely ridiculous at this point. Eyeballed a weekend trip a few mos back and basic rack rate at Encore now was almost 1K a night on Fri/Sat.

I am firmly aware that giving the Wynn MORE action is not revenge. I'm tongue-in-cheek saying my plan is to come in and have a massive win by way of revenge.

More will be revealed with the upcoming TR. If I can't get financial revenge and/or I'm screwed moving forward compwise then FB gets my business. Prelim results with a host there suggest I'll get min same or better than the Wynn.

Oh, and the cutting of comp, prices going up up up in Vegas... it's not a new thing. It's just been a steady decline everywhere from day 1. I've been coming to Vegas long enough I can definitely see it. People with more experience than me are probably like "no sht, we told you so". And newbs still play 6:5 blackjack or triple zero roulette. I just thought I had things basically locked in with the Wynn- I give them some certain amount of set theo, and if that doesn't change they give me upfront assurances. Guess not.

I hate dealing with hosts. (NB: It's been a while for me.) Even when they give you something, they usually have an attitude that they're just enticing a sucker to keep coming back with more money.

I mean, that is their job, but most seem to get very jaded and it shows in their mannerisms and speech.

Exactly! Go where you're appreciated more. I understand nothing is as nice as the Wynn but until people stop playing there they will continue to drop comps. The casino greed is getting out of hand. Almost all strip casinos are now charging for parking. I guess their bottom line is suffering lmao

leon, assuming you switch: do you tell the Wynn host, or find who they report to and mention it? Not as an FU, but "hey, you're not getting my business, at least for now, and here's the reasons why."

OK, maybe somewhat as an FU, too. 😀

Oof, sad end to the TR in more ways than one

I’m reminded again how much better it would have felt if the 40k day had come on the last day and not the first

Yeah money won means nothing, it’s always based on coin-in and theo.

Leon I know you’re not a huge fan of Cosmo but have you considered the B or Aria as alternative options with an MLife membership?

(I have a tiny thought that you may have been with them in the past?)

Also, we haven’t had mention of your dad recently itt. Is his health ok/is he still gambling?

This is not entirely true or at least not universally so.

Actual loss is very often a factor in comping decisions. Often they look at loss that trip and loss L3M and maybe L6M. The host “goals” are nearly always theo-based though. So the host doesn’t care, he wants you to win. But “the man” will comp you either on Theo or loss, looking at both, and the primary view is that trip. They’re gonna look at total comp tho: air, limo, food, etc. The rationale is they could’ve sold the room so have to make sure they are getting the value out of it. It’s a publicly traded company - they have to appease the Street!

As you'll see in the next installment, I already told my host I'm talking to FB. If I move, I'm not sure I want to say anything. Mostly bc I know on some level the host is doing his job and Wynn will be most pleased about that. I don't want to burn a bridge that I might care about that in the future. Zero chance he gets fired, not that I want that, and zero chance his boss says "oh no he got it all wrong please come back we'll give you the world etc".

Never been with MGM. As far as my dad, we talk on the phone every once in a while but as I mentioned before he and my mom split up, he's in Taiwan, his health is about the same and unfortunately for him most people don't want to interact with him for very long, including me and my brother.

I'm getting this sense too the more I deal with my host. Theo is the starting point, and win/loss definitely modifies things. Every single time in the past I've been stiffed or the Wynn has been less generous, it's come on the heels of winning trip.

Second Wynn trip in as many weeks TR, 5/30-6/2

So I explained the backstory for this earlier. This is a very impromptu trip and I only booked the tickets and had my room arranged a few days before which might as well be last minute for me. I thought I was flying solo- tried to get my mom, D, T, anyone who might join me to come out and help make sure I don't book too big of a loss. Luckily the day before D realizes he can come out. I'll be there Thurs AM- slightly earlier departure Sun AM, he's getting in Thurs night and leaves very early Sun AM.

I know I shouldn't be going. I hate the Wynn right now and my effective bankroll is getting short. I already have this family trip in June that I need a bankroll for, and I am very aware objectively this is a dumb move. However, the degen in me feels like I have unfinished business with the Wynn. I definitely want to have a sit down with my host- face to face is the only way to have what may be our last convo, ever. Plus, I'm tentatively going to meet with a host at FB.

Bankroll- I've got a problem. I need enough to survive if it's bad. I won't have enough to play in June if it's bad. FFFF I decide 50k. D then asks me to bring extra which he can pay back if need be bc HE'S short. OK, I bring 60k. I "won't need it". He's only got 5k!!!

Agenda-
Thurs- talk to host, dinner at Red8
Fri- dinner at FB (Chyna Club)
Sat- dinner at Safta 1964, a Mediterranean chef in residence at Jardin that I've been wanting to try for a while
Sun- come home after breakfast, that's a new one for me. Dovetails nicely with decreasing exposure and I can make the home poker game I started up a few months ago

Other stuff- this trip is make or break. I CANNOT go off on a big number. I will not play ANY 10 line UX unless I hit something. Spin gets no more than 1k bullets at a time. Play slow, play small, and hope to get lucky.

It really does never get old. I can't wait for the flight to be over. I'm happy just to be at the airport. God I'm a degen. And yes, I still hate the Wynn but I'm happy to be back?!

My driver and I wait a true 30 min before the bags start coming out. Never seen that before at McCarran (it'll always be McCarran to me). I'm getting antsy- hopefully this travel run bad will translate to trip rungood? Finally, my bag shows up and we get to the Wynn.

1k bullets. No more.

I decide to open with my free credit. How many times have I tried to save it until the end and never succeed? Maybe I start with it, and never have to put more money in the machine. Host hasn't put the 2500$ FC on. I play ultra slow until it gets there. I also tell him I really need to speak with him, he says he'll find me "soon".

Start.

End, 66% payback. Not good.

I'm coasting at 5 play, not hitting anything big but getting to play. At some point I just get so BORED playing 5 play (remember, I did a ton of it 2 weeks ago too) that I decide to play 10 lines. I can still stop whenever- I literally have set an alarm on my phone reminding me to stop every hr. But why be bored and nickel and dime myself to death?

Finally on the board. SO STANDARD. Can't convert to a premium quad, but I can convert a pair of 10s, twice.

Still no host. I last for a while at UX but eventually move to spin.

Whoa this is a little bigger than normal. Turns out I've made quads in that perfect spot to get 5 lines, not 3.

Again, I'm getting to play, but I just cannot hit a big one. I'm getting hungry and D doesn't get in until 8pm. I break for a snack.

Have to eat at the machine bc the lounge was full!

Back to UX, 5 lines again.

ARGH so close to being actually meaningful.

I tried another old school machine.

These couple of hrs were basically put 1k into a machine, slowly lose, hit something, lose more, etc. I'm down about 10k going into the early evening. STILL NO HOST. I'm getting angry now and this is contributing to mini-tilt at the machines. I've already lost more than I wanted to on day 1, day 1 is still going, and part of me feels like I can't leave the floor until I see my host. Finally I decide screw it, I'll see him at some point and decide to play craps. There will be much more craps this trip than normal, mostly bc it's D's game and for me, likely is less of a loss than VP.

I walk right into a warm table. I'm doing a new thing now, 320 across right from the get go, press each number once then take, rinse and repeat. I've had some decent results this way before, it's fun, and an insta-out is going to kill me no matter what. My overall bet size is smaller than my normal, though. Anyways, they hit some good numbers and I wind up with a 500$ five and a 600$ six, collected a lot. I won several k when that roll ended. Played a couple more rolls, gave a little back then decided to lock in my first win of the trip.

In for 3k, out for 5.

OK, still have hrs to go before D gets in. I take the 5k chip and get a voucher, thinking "this'll last me a while". I give back 3k really fast at high limit and head back to the floor. Text host again- he swears he'll be by "soon". So I keep playing, and losing. I think I'm down 15k by the time I see him. Everything I got from craps and more.

I'll give you the short version- he literally didn't care about my position. I told him he ruined my friends' June trip, they already bought plane tix, show tix etc. He doesn't care. I tell him I've always asked for things upfront, he always agreed, my play hasn't changed, etc. He doesn't care. They're cutting back. Can't guarantee anything upfront any more. All based on play. So then I mention I'll likely have to go to FB and I've already been in contact with a host. He doesn't care, in fact he's saying he's sure I could more there. He seems supremely confident and assured of himself.

That was the thing that surprised me the most. I actually thought I had a stronger hand going in and that he probably doesn't have the nuts. The way he negotiated, actually there was zero negotiation. It's like he had the stone nuts and literally doesn't care what hand I think I have. F. There's no win here. So finally I ask about moving forward, if I stay how can I even get a room? Now he's confused- he'll always provide that upfront. What about my free credit? Yes. Food comp? Yes. Wait, so you won't make any guarantees upfront, except when you will?

That, L+G, is the take away. I'm still getting what I got upfront. But no guarantees. Might change trip to trip. I'll find out when I check in with him. Oh and a cabana might be comped. But never upfront.

?!?!!!

OK, so the one win I'm taking from this is he's pledged to be more clear in his communications. My basic comp hasn't changed but could change in the future. I'm ok with that, I guess. What else can I do? I'm assuming the likelihood of "extra" perks in the future will go down, and will be based more off of post-facto results.

Host moves on, and finally D gets in. We head to Red8 and I catch him up. I forget to take pics, but we get the exact same thing we got last TR. D has actually been in for a bit, he thought he made eye contact with me, went to play craps, and is now stuck 2k right out of the gate, 2/5 of his whole bankroll! WTF dude, no I didn't see you! That's why I said text me when you get in! Turns out he texted his wife but not me. ARGH

So we're both stuck big, right away. F. Let's play some craps and slow this down. We walk to Encore and partner 50/50. We're both in for 2k, and once again we walk right into a good roll. Lock in a win, play for quite some time and in the end-

Out for 1k profit each.

I decide to play some VP to end the night. It's already a little later than I wanted and I'm stuck about 14k, but I figure a 20k day 1 loss max I can live with. It can't stay bad, can it?

Finally get dealt quads.

Spoiler

Show

Just meh. Cannot complete ONE premium draw, but of course I get dealt regular quads, zero multipliers. I think this hand pissed me off more than almost any other this trip.

Not enough.

It's close to 1am when I hit my stopping point. Not a good start. I get this sense that my time at the Wynn is drawing to a close...

Day 1- -20k
dealt quads- 1

Day 2 coming soon...

Place is charging 700 a night minimum retail and they can’t commit to giving you a cabana that probably wouldn’t get used anyway because they’re even more expensive retail is… a choice.

Have fun at FB I guess. Wynn has clearly reached a point where they feel they don’t have to take care of anyone anymore.

That is what I suspected. I have heard others say similar..

Completely agree that Wynn retail is beyond ridiculous. Somewhat disagree with the rest bc a) I see people spending retail there all the time. WTF

b) there is some ridiculous money that just moves through there all the time. Every time I'm in hi limit someone else is playing 10-100x bigger than me. Same thing with the craps or BJ tables, people LOL losing 100k at a clip all the time. So stupid. You know those people are being taken care of.

c) This is something that sort of occurred to me this trip, again. It really doesn't get any better than the Wynn. They're the best, the nicest, and they know it. Multiple interactions with employees where they just go the extra mile. Every single person remembers my name and does the little things they know I like. You just don't see that anywhere else. So in sense, the Wynn "takes care" of everyone who walks through the doors in some small way, whether they're paying retail, trying to milk the system like me, or if they're a whale. It's built into the Wynn experience and I do recognize that.

I think we are saying the same thing but just to be clear -- Theo should always still be your floor. You can get increased comps based on actual loss and "come back to earth" when you win, but still should never adjust below Theo. The issue is when you're usually losing and they're treating you great, and then you win a bunch but keep same play, your net loss is gonna drop, and they're gonna treat you like your Theo not like your run-bad losses, so they may get more stingy.

Sounds like they're already decided to let you go. I predict they'll pay you minimum wage on losing trips and perhaps toss you a small bone on winning trips. A very small bone. Perhaps.

It happens sooner or later to everyone who's a long-term winner or not a total degen. It's not personal; it's just business.

Yes I think it's sort of both of these things. What I was getting before hasn't changed from a theo perspective per se- I was just getting "extra" when I lost but I assumed it was host promising me upfront, but he in fact wasn't and doing a post hoc analysis. Or things really have changed and he can't promise upfront anymore. At least the room/free credit/food situation hasn't changed, for now.

I actually think I know why I got screwed in May. I have been playing on D's card quite a bit- first to get him to black, and then to earn him enough to keep it. When we came in March I think I lost quite a bit on his card, but overall was net winner. That implies the play on my card reflects a large win.

Same thing in May- we lost overall, but mostly on his card. So for this impromptu trip I can see my host looking at my May and saying "didn't generate as much theo, didn't lose much if at all". This is supported by what D and I got for this trip- I got 2.5k FC and 500! food comp which is way low for me. D got 2.5k FC and 900 food! He has never gotten more than me, ever.

That was one of the things we discussed this past trip- I was totally happy to play on his card before, but we have to take the data points for what they are- I didn't think the Wynn would notice the diminished play but they seem to be, and it's being reflected in reduced offers/host not picking up what he typically would in the past. When D and I realized this I softened on my host a bit. The numbers he can see HAVE to have gone down.

Oops! Yeah, you should have kept a tally of what you put thru/took out on your card vs his card, so that you could be looking at what they are looking at.

Probably too late for Wynn, but maybe a lesson for the future.