5/10: when a whale changes the table dinamycs

Where are we in relation to the whale?

He is on seat 2, we are on seat 6

I see this a ton at 1/3.

My adjustments would be:

1. Play more hands when the whale is involved and we'll have good position post flop. But generally stay away from playing too passively with too many hands that don't play well multi-way. Think of the whale as creating a lower stack depth / lower SPR situation, because more pots will be going multi-way and bloated. So our range should be more showdown oriented than overly speculative. All those low PP's and SC's go down in value.

2. 3B less often and smaller when the whale is going to be closing the action. Like, if there's an EP open when it's the whale's BB, we shouldn't be 3B'ing quite as often, and when we do 3B, it should be smaller, and with a tighter range. We're sort of hoping that the whale will cold call, and the original raiser will feel compelled to 4B or fold.

3. Relentlessly ISO 3B from LP whenever the whale has called an EP or MP open, or when the whale has limped and any of the players left to act behind us are overly aggro and squeeze-happy. Ideally, we want action to fold back around to the whale.

4. If the seat on the whale's direct left opens, take it.

Basically we want to get involved with the whale as often as possible, but preferably when we're IP, and also preferably not multi-way. Our pre-flop actions should be tailored to invite loose action from the whale, but discourage loose action from our other opponents.

So more or less directly across from them.

I don’t know if we change much, tbh. There’s a few more spots where a 3! becomes a cold call. You obviously want to keep your aggressive ranges very linear PF when they’re in the hand. There are obviously a bunch of adjustments you’ll make as you get closer to showdown and closer to HU against the whale, but I don’t think that’s what you’re asking.

Kinda sounds like he just changed it from a somewhat slow weekday 5/T game to a normal weekend live cash game.

They are smart enough to know they are donating.

Also if i accept your premise that a table change is tapping the glass, in what world is you announcing that the glass is being tapped not further aggravation of the glass tapping? Two wrongs make a right?

Yuck 10 handed

As for pre, i would just open bigger if whale is involved and play your normal range, not a big fan of all that limping stuff unless whale is just a hyper aggro maniac. 3b less if reg opens and whale still left to act.

Agree with the seat changing from Smoola, im not saying never seat change but if you wanna do it dont snap go to his left and make it blatantly obvious that your targeting him.

It's fine so long as you're very smooth and casual about it. Whenever a whale sits down at any seat other than my direct left, I like to begin complaining about how I have diarrhea. Don't say it too loudly or make a big scene about it, but do mention it frequently. Shuffle your chips angrily and just keep muttering to yourself about how irritated your bowels are, almost like you're tilting over it. (This has the added bonus of getting your aces paid off by people who think you're actually on tilt.)

When the seat you want finally opens up, immediately start moving your chips over so that you "can be close to the bathroom." (Doesn't matter if the seat's actually closer to the bathroom, a real drooler won't pick up on it. This is an example of leveraging your informational advantage over a whale.) No one should question your urgent movements getting your chips to the left of the whale. After all, you do have diarrhea (this could be a good time to remind them if anyone questions you.)

IF the whale notices you're not running to the bathroom every few orbits (unlikely: see informational advantage above) just whisper "Don't worry about that, buddy" and wink and point for him to look under the table where you can show him an extra pair of underwear you brought for just that occasion. (Villain doesn't need to know that that's not why you have extra underwear, but every perceptive reg with a well stocked grinder bag will obviously know why.)

You guys seem to be overly worried about EV.

There is something to be said for being a gentleman and a good sport even if costs you EV right now.

If you develop a reputation for being a gentleman and a good sports who doesn't try to squeeze out every last bit of EV through unsportsmanlike stuff like predatory seat changing/table changing, you will be surprised how much you will benefit in long run EV.

There are a couple of the best pros in my player pool who are both a nightmare to play against. For some reason, the whales regularly table change to their tables. It boggles my mind, but they are both super likable in many ways. I don't know, but I suspect that they got a ton of EV from just being likable.

Don't be the annoying reg who keeps trying to seat change to the left of whales.

It's like you didn't even read my post. Which is fine if you ask me. It'd probably be bad for the game if everyone implemented solid seat changing strategies. I've been getting away with a pretty unbalanced game, hardly ever mixing it up from my diarrhea play. There are some recs who will reach out to me with concern trying to provide dieting advice and all.

If everyone were going around saying they had diarrhea all the time, I'd be forced to come up with other lines, and then how many times could I get away with saying it's my wife's due date, how many grandmoms could I reasonably put on imaginary hospice just to get closer to the proverbial exit, etc etc.

No no, it's better if you all just skip over my post and keep up with your exploitable seat changing strategies.

I mean thats fine, but maybe take your own advice. Making a comment that puts the spotlight on a negative aspect of the game, and may come off as whiny (i dont personally think its whiny, but it could be viewed that way) sure doesnt sound like a way to make the table fun for the whale. Like honestly the key to keeping whales engaged is to avoid talking about anything to do with strategic aspects of the game (including table or seat changes) and focusing entirely on extensive diarrhea conversation. I once drove an annoying pro away from my table because he was going on about how the average american lives better than kings in the 1400s, and I agreed with him and then went into extensive detail about how bloody and gross the typical **** of Louis XIV probably was. And then the whales befriended me and gave me a $500 tip each.

Dude I play 1/3 and 2/5. I'm not a pro. I change seats whenever I'm not at the end of the table. A low stakes whale isn't going to feel targeted just because someone changes seats and happens to sit next to him. I've never seen anyone get their shorts in a twist just because someone changes seats. Lighten up.

This tread is about a 5/10/20 whale though, dynamics are much different than 1/3 whales

Other people are playing too many hands and limping so they don't know where they are. Tighten up, but make your opens much larger. You profit from people garbage out of position. You can make money here on more than the whale. For interlace, you're in the BB with JJ, 5 limper to you, you make it $80 to go. You're now solo in the pot with the whale with a $210 pot. Just be wary of everyone playing ace garbage, but also keep in mind plenty of people will be doing that.

And I started my post with "I see this a ton at 1/3."

If guys at 5/10 are going to get their shorts in a knot over a seat change, they need to grow the f**k up.

I used to play similar stakes, but not live NLHE cash. I think I understand the dynamics, but don't have the experience with it some others do.

I assume that this whale is not just an amateur who would not be so noticed at 1/3, but really spewy.

I would think it would be a mistake to be too obvious you are doing things to sit next to the whale etc., as it might chase him away.

You can make some adjustments, but limping junky hands seems really bad, as it will cost you versus the other 8 players at the table. Also, is this whale so bad that you will have a big advantage postflop playing the trash he is playing? Then it might be difficult to isolate versus him. So I agree to keep playing solid and take advantage of others playing too loose, as well as the mistakes of the whale.