AdAh 4 ways in big 3bet pot on 3s2s2
You might yawn and want to snap move on shouting GTFO from your lawn chairs, because it's not like there are many options in this choose your own adventure (not really a spoiler: H isn't considering folding). If so I appologise, but anyway...
1-2 at MGM Springfield on a Sunday evening.
There is a high hand promotion going on TTT22 or better every hour, must use both hole cards.
V1 Playing way too wide pre. (limp/calling and sometimes raising) and has been trying to bluff his way out post. Watched too much high stakes videos and thinks he's good was my guess at the time. Bought in for $500 at least once, starts hand with ~$200.
V2 Random 1-2 reg. ... mostly like V1 but without the bluffing air (or low equity draws) post. Limps too much, calls to much etc. Not that important anyway. ~$300
V3 Sat down with $500 maybe 20 minutes ago, also limping and calling too wide both pre. and post. Won a majority of pots since he sat down, mostly by just not folding or hitting and refusing to consider folding top pair and holding, but has won a few hands without showdown too. Has air pods in and not talking to anyone, lookinging at phone between hands etc. Maybe tighter than V1 first time around, but stubborn (
Spoiler
some of this last bit might be results based though, given I found out a few hands after this one that he's a 2-5 "reg." and was waiting to play 2-5, I'd guess now he mostly doesn't care about the money, and also maybe thinks he's good enough to play wide ranges post against 1-2 players
). Covers everyone. Probably over $800.
H Probably has a tight image but has been raising big vs. V1 and maybe V2 for 1-2 hours, if either of them are good enough to pay attn. ...
Been in one pot with V3 where I had AQ and raised to 16 over his limp pre. and he called ... then I checked back on a 7 high board and he bet turn and won. Has $420-$480, bought in for $300 and been up and down ... I think I'd added on $150 after losing a hand vs. someone, so might be up or down ~$30 if anyone notices.
The hand:
Preflop
Random open limps (was maybe V1, not 100% sure)
V1 limps LJ
V2 limps HJ
V3 limps CO
SB limps?
H in BB has A♦A♥ and tries to think of a number (there's $11-$13 in the pot) vs. these clowns, I know 22 is getting called so frack it ... H makes it $32
If random was in there he folded.
V1 calls
V2 calls
V3 calls
SB folds
So four ways to a flop and H is wondering how he'll get screwed.
Pot: ~$130
Flop: 3s2s2x (not 100% sure on the second suit if anyone thinks we do different things with BDNFD blocker)
H is pretty sure he has the nuts and V1 is going to bluff at it, and even if not and nobody else does it's okay to check this anyway so...
H checks
V1 shoves ~$168 (could be as low as $140)
V2 folds
V3 thinks a bit (but doesn't ask for a count of V1's chips as he obviously covers) and calls.
H thinks (but also doesn't ask for a count) about shoving now (~$250 more give or take 5% of the pot) or calling and open shoving any non-spade turns (maybe not the 2 or an A, but I don't really like checking either of those and can't think of a smaller sane number to bet).
My "reads": I thought it was most likely that someone had a pair and someone has a flush draw. Also possible V1 had "air" and V3 had a pair or a FD.
If V1 has the FD then it could be 7s5s, if V3 then probably K or A high (but again hard to tell how much of this is now biased but I was pretty sure of the first sentence at the time).
Obviously some chance I'm wrong and it's like V1 with 99 and V3 somehow has JJ and over limped.
Or even someone has A2s (although only _maybe_ a single combo. of that) or even 33/22. I was aware of this and was mentally shrugging with a lol, I'm going broke then and have another great story it's not worth telling anyone.
The first SPOIL is things I learned about V3 after the hand.
This next SPOIL is a bit more of what happens, which might also hint at futures but doesn't give away _everything_...
Spoiler
I didn't think that long about how we have a lot of visibility on turns and our equity goes up a lot on bricks, but V3 is probably forced to only bet flushes on a turn Ts due to the dry side pot. And the only thing that really "surprises" us is if V3 has TT and a Td hits the turn where we are now ~4%...
H pretended he had to think about what to do and reshoved flop; V3 called quickly but maybe didn't look super happy about it.
H turns over his cards and nobody else does (will have to wait for the rest).
Esp. interested on if people think call is good but obviously feel free to comment on anything, or nothing.
6 Replies
As if that wall of text wasn't enough...
On the flop I remember thinking "there's only maybe one combo. of A2s" but if I had to bet $5 on it I think the flop was 3s2s2c, which is zero combos.
Shove
Think we need to just get it in. So many over pairs to this flop our opponents could have, plus a fair number of draws, and so few really nutted hands. No shame in going broke with AA vs these clowns, on this board.
I don't think that's the question. He's obviously not folding.
The decision is between shoving the flop or calling and going to a turn. To make things easier, we probably can assume that V3 isn't folding to a flop shove getting 3.5ish:1 on a call.
That leaves us with the question if villain might fold on any kind of turn and, if hero doesn't shove a spade turn, how often villain would shove himself or check back. The latter would involve a lot of assumptions because I'm sure some people would check back that third spade at a very high frequency if they had a (high) spade in their hand while others would shove that same hand at a very high frequency.
Frankly, in spots where I think the money goes in anyway, I just put it in on the flop without thinking too much about it. If we assume that villain never folds to a shove we also don't have to worry about balance. But we obviously don't want to be that guy who shoves his high pairs in spots like that but flat calls his flush draws because somebody else might pick up on that.
I don't think that's the question. He's obviously not folding.
The decision is between shoving the flop or calling and going to a turn. To make things easier, we probably can assume that V3 isn't folding to a flop shove getting 3.5ish:1 on a call.
That leaves us with the question if villain might fold on any kind of turn and, if hero doesn't shove a spade turn, how often villain would shove himself or check back. The latter would involve a lot of assumptions because I'm sure some people would ch
Yeah, I'm in this camp. I don't think we need to overthink - just stick it in now.
I don't think that's the question. He's obviously not folding.
The decision is between shoving the flop or calling and going to a turn. To make things easier, we probably can assume that V3 isn't folding to a flop shove getting 3.5ish:1 on a call.
That leaves us with the question if villain might fold on any kind of turn and, if hero doesn't shove a spade turn, how often villain would shove himself or check back. The latter would involve a lot of assumptions because I'm sure some people would ch
You omitted this part of my post, when you quoted me:
Think we need to just get it in. So many over pairs to this flop our opponents could have, plus a fair number of draws, and so few really nutted hands.
I wasn't suggesting the question was fold, call or jam. I realized it was simply call or jam. OP said he wasn't considering folding, and was only debating between calling and jamming, so that much was obvious to anyone who read the OP.
My suggestion was to jam, because of all the flush draws V3 could have, and because he can have so many over-pairs to the board, that aren't folding. There's so much dead money in the pot when V3 calls V1's jam, it's just such an obvious spot to re-jam, and put V's flush draws in the blender.
Additionally, if hero just flat calls it creates a dry side-pot that neither he nor V3 is incentivized to bluff into, so if hero flats, and then checks turn, V3 could just check back. If hero bets turn, V is likely to fold a lot of hands that would call a jam here on the flop. I see no reason to give V3 a cheap price to out-draw us AND possibly get away from his hand on the turn.
