Reasonable aggression shorthanded or completely unnecessary airball?

Reasonable aggression shorthanded or completely unnecessary airball?

1/3 NLHE 5 handed

Table open an hour, 5-7 handed, about 4 orbits, H has had only two playable hands and one was borderline. K3s from BTN open and 99 in MP. Both check folded flop no SD. V is mainly unknown loose passive but I know he has a gamble button. He opened 23dd to 12 UTG and went HU and played a trappy OOP hand on a Ad 4s 5d 4d 6c runout where he lead shoved 5x pot OTR and the guy folded.

H has 460$ and V has about 405$

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UTG loose passive losing player blind opens 10, H to 50 in CO with Q 9, V calls BTN, all else fold. HU OOP.

Flop 110 - K 8 3

H bets 40, V calls

Turn 190 - 8

H?

01 July 2024 at 04:44 AM
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23 Replies



I'd go half-pot again, to look like you're setting up a River shove. The turn is fairly neutral (neither of you should have many 8s), and by completing a rainbow you get folds out of his ATss/AJdd/JThh /etc hands that floated flop, and you should get folds out of his 55/66/77 hands with a second barrel). He still has some KQ (though just two combos of KQ suited) to call you down, as well as traps, but I think this is definitely a spot you should fire a second barrel--but no more, once he calls twice, his range is really condensed to top pair +.


Fold preflop. No need for this at 1/3.


What is he calling flop with that folds turn?

In a normal game preflop then in general on the flop you shouldn't bet with an eight, but you call with an 8. So when the 8 pairs on the turn it's better for the range of the person who called on the flop.
But this is a weird game with 3 blinds and a (wide in a normal game) raise to 5x and 40bb stacks with a BTN cold call.
Also is there some chance that BTN thinks UTG opened and H 3bet? Is there any chance he thought that at any point and realized his mistake?

I'd think he's less likely folding 77-55 on a turn K or 8 card. But I guess you block 98s and it's super hard to win if you don't bet.

Are you normally continuing to value bet JJ/TT/99 here?

Would much rather continue bluffing with A high, I think, just because we might be drawing dead with this hand (even 99 has 2 outs vs. a K and some chance at showdown if river checks down).
In general though I doubt I bet this turn much for value or bluff.


This hand is a fold preflop in a 5/10 game, online, late in a tournament, whatever. At 1/3 most people are calling the 3! despite most 3!s are like KK+ and usually calling a cbet. If you had AK or QJs or something, it would be reasonable to discuss. If you watch Bart's videos, etc., in tougher games they will often 3! something rather than call with it or bluff with Axs or whatever. I don't ever see them 3! junk hands. If there were limpers or it was folded to me in CO, I would snap fold this hand. If you want to practice 3!ing light, do it with suited broadway, suited connectors, suited aces, etc. or like AQo.


Even 5 handed, I don't love your preflop play.


There is $4 in the blinds. If he wants to steal the blinds, let him have them. It is not like a tournament where you are fighting for the blinds and antes.

The best way to beat bad loose passive players is to play solidly and get paid off for your good hands. Only bluff in really good spots for it.

Playing agro at loose passive games can often lose a lot of $s. Often the agro players at these games are the whales. I really don't see where you got the idea this is a reasonable way to play.

You need to study hand ranges. Sometimes playable are pps, Axs, ATo+, KJo+, suited broadway, and decent suited connectors and gappers. Offsuit high, but not that high hands, are what Doyle called trouble hands. It is easy to be dominated with them. For example, Q9o is dominated by 99+, QT, QJ, KQ, K9, and A9. The only time to play this hand in a 1/3 game is in a limped pot in the BB. I might complete in a limped pot in the SB with this to not look to nitty, but you aren't getting enough of a discount to play it.


by illiterat k

What is he calling flop with that folds turn?

About a zillion on a Turn that completes a rainbow? He can call flop and fold Turn with:

AQ of diamonds, hearts and spades.
AJ of diamonds, hearts and spades.
AT of diamonds, hearts and spades.
A9 of diamonds, hearts and spades.
A5 of diamonds, hearts and spades.
A4 of diamonds, hearts and spades.
QJ of of diamonds, hearts and spades.
QT of diamonds, hearts and spades.
JT of diamonds, hearts and spades.
76 of diamonds, hearts and spades.
65 of diamonds, hearts and spades.
54 of diamonds, hearts and spades.
J9 of diamonds and hearts.
T9 of diamonds and hearts.
97 of diamonds and hearts.
A3 of hearts and clubs.
Pocket 2s, pocket 4s, pocket 5s, pocket 6s, pocket 7s.


pre sizing looks way too big to me (also too loose, it seems unlikely to me you want to be opening wider than normal into a guy whos blind opening utg and this particular v otb) which thinks v's range going to be much tighter than normal here. treat it like a 10$ blind game with 3 blinds and youd want to open to like ~25, esp if you're going this loose

post you just bet too much oop otf in general


Can you show a reference to a book, video, or solver output that suggest 3-betting with hands like this?

What if someone posted a hand limping in Q9o UTG and calling a raise?


Result:

Spoiler
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I bomb it for 160 and he tank folds not showing.


by Stupidbanana k

Result:

Spoiler
Show

I bomb it for 160 and he tank folds not showing.

Sorry, well played on all streets.


I mean it was 5 handed and I was card dead... its not egregious is it?


Fold pre


It’s really a perfect Turn for us to keep barreling. V will have a lot of hands that can just call one street.


Just bombing it with air works everytime (almost).


Shorthanded games ain't in my comfort zone.

I just pass preflop.

I'm ok with a small cbet on this flop.

And I give up on the turn.

GcluelessingeneralnoobG


by illiterat k

Just bombing it with air works everytime (almost).

It’s the secret to poker that THEY don’t want you to know!


by deuceblocker k

This hand is a fold preflop in a 5/10 game, online, late in a tournament, whatever. At 1/3 most people are calling the 3! despite most 3!s are like KK+ and usually calling a cbet. If you had AK or QJs or something, it would be reasonable to discuss. If you watch Bart's videos, etc., in tougher games they will often 3! something rather than call with it or bluff with Axs or whatever. I don't ever see them 3! junk hands.

To add to this, the general principle is that your 3bet bluffs should be hands that are not profitable as calls, but out of your folding range, you choose the top of your folding range, where it's almost a call but not quite, and you also make sure you aren't doing it too much.

If you do it too much your loose-passive opponents will catch on and they will either call you down lighter or they will trap you with hands they're supposed to be playing more aggressively; either way you'll be punting to them.

Q9o is WAY too far down in your range to add to a light 3betting range.


He’s probably defending his blind raise super wide, maybe down to 82s and 85o (just guessing based on similar spots). He had a ton of 8s and you have none. He’s not folding a king. Just give up.

Not folding pre seems like a huge mistake, and raising 5x seems like a small mistake.


So V blind raised. Q9o is not worth opening. Q9s sure and also QTo for a min raise, maybe 2.5x. 5x is a torch. Honestly I think this is just a pretty big leak and I think studying and being more disciplined preflop + having better sizing is going to bring a huge boost to your win rate.

Flop seems ok.

Unless you have some read that villain is over floating flop and over folding turn I would check fold turn, but bluff some rivers.

Turn our bluffs should probably come more from our worst Ax hands, A2s, A4s, maybe even A3. Reason being we can fold out better ace highs and some pocket pairs, unblock middling pocket pairs, and a smidgen of equity vs Kx.


PRE - raise size is too large. Q9o is way too wide, even in the CO, and short-handed. I'd say it's especially bad in a short-handed game with three blinds. We're basically UTG if it's five handed. Four guys have yet to act.

FLOP - c-betting the K-high flop for around 1/3 pot seems ok, but I think I'd rather check from OOP and make a delayed c-bet on the turn if V checks back. Once we c-bet and get called, I think I'm done with it.

TURN - I'd check. If V bets I just fold. If he checks back I might bet river, maybe 2/3 pot.


thx everyone


by Stupidbanana k

Result:

Spoiler
Show

I bomb it for 160 and he tank folds not showing.

Do you play your 8s this way?

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