Over $7 million juiced from WSOP ME. How to turn poker from a negative to a positive sum game.
Caesars Entertainment bested Jordan Griff to come in 2nd in the WSOP main event by raking $7,078,400 off the prize pool.
Niche activities like the Winter X games, Mr. Olympia, and World's Strongest Man contest are somehow able to produce shows and pay out prize money without entry fees. As poker players we like to think of ourselves as smart, but for whatever reason we get back less money than we put into our major events. Have the competitors in those other events outsmarted us?
The obvious reason why all those other events are positive sum activities is because of sponsorship money. The opportunities for sponsorship of major poker tournaments seems substantial. Online sites, casinos, tourism boards like the LVCA, and aspirational brands like Rolex & Cadillac all seem like natural fits for a big money televised/streamed poker event. Yet, event after event, poker players keep paying juice and a portion of us are busted out because of it.
Every year there is speculation from the poker community over which ME final table member will be best for poker, but imo there's almost no chance the positive effect of a good champion will outweigh the negative effect of the irrepressible grind of rake. $7 million is a lot to cover in sponsorship money. A competing tournament, however, with a capped number of buy-ins and by consequence capped expenses to run seems like the perfect opportunity to have sponsorship cover the costs of dealers, tv production etc. and maybe even add some money to the prize pool. If a series of these events were held it might not lead to another poker boom, but with extra money coming into the poker economy it does figure to lead to some degree of sustained growth.
Do you realize how difficult it is to offer poker at any scale, much less one that has 100-200k individual unique people play over 1.5 months?
If the business doesn't make money they wont offer it.
99%+ of those players dont want anything to do with having to figure out the logistics, they just want to play.
Its no easy task to collect $10k from 10k degens and distribute it without too many issues. That alone is worth the rake imo.
The bigger issue is the money grab for food and drink. They got you by the balls in the middle of the desert so what can you do.
Sent from my SM-G998W using Tapatalk
Are you trying to describe WSOP or Las Vegas?
Are you more captive than when you go to an NFL game down the street?
Do you realize how difficult it is to offer poker at any scale, much less one that has 100-200k individual unique people play over 1.5 months?
If the business doesn't make money they wont offer it.
99%+ of those players dont want anything to do with having to figure out the logistics, they just want to play.
I don't know how much it costs to run the WSOP or an event like it. I do, however, have a rough idea of what it costs to run a tournament with 200 or 300 people, and I would think that number would be less than the cost of sponsoring some random college bowl game like the Famous Toastery or 68 Ventures Bowl. Those games have associated expenses also, but somehow they get sponsored and make money, and if more people watch them than watch poker I doubt it's by a wide margin.
It doesn't matter if 99%+ of the players in the WSOP don't want anything to do with tournament logistics. It could only take a handful of people to make an overlay or rake free tournament happen. Players don't even have to know what an overlay is to benefit. Compare a 10k buy-in tournament with 300 seats and 7% juice to the same tournament with sponsors covering the rake. The prize pool of the latter tournament is $210k larger. A poker player doesn't have to even know that his payout is larger to enjoy the benefits.
IMO having a series of events or even a stand-alone event like this is not that far fetched.
GL to you.
Describing main event but the logic should apply to any decent sized tournament. The logistics of collecting, safe-guarding and distributing large sums of money are rather challenging, wouldnt you agree?
Not exactly sure what youre getting at with the 2nd point can you expand on that.
Sent from my SM-G998W using Tapatalk
If broadcast rights are not being managed well, it's time to start a new organization with proper revenue sharing for all participants...
What the WSOP pulls off each year is nothing short of amazing and they probably don’t get near the full credit that they do
People might complain that a huge event like Collossus is delayed an hour, but overall logistics handling is top notch
Then there is the marketing, thousands of people chasing bracelets and always someone getting their picture taken in front of the WSOP sign.
The brand is so well built up and things run so smoothly (all things considered) there’s really no room for a competitor
What the WSOP pulls off each year is nothing short of amazing and they probably don’t get near the full credit that they do
People might complain that a huge event like Collossus is delayed an hour, but overall logistics handling is top notch
Then there is the marketing, thousands of people chasing bracelets and always someone getting their picture taken in front of the WSOP sign.
The brand is so well built up and things run so smoothly (all things considered) there’s really no room for a competi
I will say, I was very impressed with how smooth everything ran this year. The last couple years have been rough with the venue change but this year was much smoother.
OP, the rake you pay is the cost to help them put on the event for you, plain and simple.
Cards, chips, dealers, floor staff, lighting, AC, tables, chairs, floor space, bracelets, set up crews, clean up crews, marketing, websites, all of it costs money.
The rake covers those costs and if they make additional money from broadcasting, sponsors, YouTube, or whatever else, more power to them. That’s capitalism and that’s what has made the greatest poker tournament series ever available for you to play in.
Don’t want to pay the rake? Don’t play.
WSOP Main event:
10,112 entrants
15 total days (dealt, not tournament)
$7.078m raked
$700 rake per player collected
WSOP Mystery Millions:
18409 entrants
6 total days
$2.209m raked
$120 rake per player
WSOP Gladiators
20,647 entrants
6 total days
$1.114m raked
$54 rake per player
WSOP COLOSSUS
19,303
5 total days
$1.351m raked
$70 rake per player
Do you realize how difficult it is to offer poker at any scale, much less one that has 100-200k individual unique people play over 1.5 months?
Overall they do a mightily impressive job. Certainly not something I'd want to have to worry about. At my work they asked me if I wanted to organise a company poker night. Would have probably have been between 20 - 50 people. I've never declined an offer so quickly,
every other year has record-breaking entrants. But you think the price of entrance needs to be lowered?
That's not how capitalism works!
7%? Or less?
OP, whats a good, fair number?
I think 7% is too high?... Bottom line minimum I'd say is 4.5%
I will say, I was very impressed with how smooth everything ran this year. The last couple years have been rough with the venue change but this year was much smoother.
OP, the rake you pay is the cost to help them put on the event for you, plain and simple.
Cards, chips, dealers, floor staff, lighting, AC, tables, chairs, floor space, bracelets, set up crews, clean up crews, marketing, websites, all of it costs money.
The rake covers those costs and if they make additional money from broadcasting,
Well except them not being able to find an AED when the player died during a tourney…but covering the money from getting sued for negligence is another thing that the WSOP has to charge for…
I've never had a dealer give me any money back for a 2 outer or after a runner runner straight to crush my set say "here's a few buck to get back on your feet". I think if this everytime I pull in a pot. Every tournament I've ever played I sit down knowing that THE HOUSE will take second in this thing. As hard as it is to cash in huge events the thought of tipping is comical.
Well except them not being able to find an AED when the player died during a tourney…but covering the money from getting sued for negligence is another thing that the WSOP has to charge for…
Pretty sure they would win that lawsuit, actually. It’s not negligence when someone dies of natural causes and you couldn’t immediately find a device in a timely manner that may or may not have saved his life. From what I hear, they called paramedics and were performing CPR rather immediately.
A lot of people die in everyday public situations that we’re not ever made aware of.
The worst part about that particular story is how everyone couldn’t be bothered to momentarily stop playing to make way for the medics. WSOP could have paused the tournament while he received medical aid but they didn’t. Still not lawsuit worthy but definitely callous.
Better that sponsorships don't cover the costs. They would interfere and meddle with the rules and dictate what gets televised and what doesn't.
Also, sports like tennis or football get huge viewer numbers and therefore can demand a lot of money from sponsors which covers the prize money.
Secondly, any one can enter the poker tournament, it is not only the best in the world.
Better if sponsors continue to play a minor role.
The worst part about that particular story is how everyone couldn’t be bothered to momentarily stop playing to make way for the medics. WSOP could have paused the tournament while he received medical aid but they didn’t. Still not lawsuit worthy but definitely callous.
I wasn’t there but one of the guys at my table in a later event was a couple of tables away. He was CPR certified and you are right that CPR was started quickly (he wasn’t even needed) with an actual doctor appearing (pretty sure it was a player) during the CPR. They were all shocked it took so long to find an AED and to get the medics in…also they were shocked they didn’t at least throw a break in the tourney to clear the way for the medics…like what do they tell the people who did cpr sorry you got blinded out because you were trying to save someone’s life.
Some real stupid comments in here - no one has a clue the costs involved to run something of this magnitude, or the risks. It's always funny to hear the views on this forum from people living in their parent's basement or renting a room in their friend's apartment - they are so out of touch with the business side of the world that it's not worth engaging. Carry on though arguing with no clue what you're talking about - it's free and you can smoke weed and argue all day long at your computer.
I wasn’t there but one of the guys at my table in a later event was a couple of tables away. He was CPR certified and you are right that CPR was started quickly (he wasn’t even needed) with an actual doctor appearing (pretty sure it was a player) during the CPR. They were all shocked it took so long to find an AED and to get the medics in…also they were shocked they didn’t at least throw a break in the tourney to clear the way for the medics…like what do they tell the people who did cpr sorry y
Yeah, that’s the stuff I heard about the incident, too.
Definitely sad and messed up that they didn’t pause it. Unfortunately, the concept that some things are more important than poker is uncommon among a lot of players. Even if that thing is potentially saving a life.
Keeping the tournament running was the best way to keep everybody at their table and not clogging the space between tables which would slow down the medics. Might sound callous but in terms of trying to get help there as quickly as possible was the correct decision.
What the WSOP pulls off each year is nothing short of amazing and they probably don’t get near the full credit that they do
People might complain that a huge event like Collossus is delayed an hour, but overall logistics handling is top notch
Then there is the marketing, thousands of people chasing bracelets and always someone getting their picture taken in front of the WSOP sign.
The brand is so well built up and things run so smoothly (all things considered) there’s really no room for a competi
Yeah, also, dealing with poker players who on average can be very disagreeable and complain a lot, so they tolerate a lot in that respect.
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I have no issue with rake at the current level since we get the logistics handled for that price. I would fight against any increase though because increases would harm the poker economy.
7 million is monkey piss compared to the aproximately 20 million the IRS takes out per 100 million of entry fees. The IRS is the biggest winner by far and should be in the Poker HOF.
This is why tournament poker is a "sucker's dream" that ends in shambles for most.
did someone order a Wambulance?
