Who has to show first?
I’ve been playing poker for 49 years and always thought the last aggressor had to show first at showdown. Last night, on the turn, I checked, and V on the button bet. I called. I checked the river and v checked back. I was waiting for V as the last aggressor to show. Dealer said I have to show first because V’s check back on the river is like calling my bet of nothing.
Depends on the room. Most rooms now, if it checks around on the river, the closest to SB shows first. This is so the dealer doesn't have to remember action across streets.
Some rooms do remember it across streets, but I would say they are in the minority.
TDA rules are the the same as the majority rule above:
A: In a non all-in showdown, if cards are not spontaneously tabled or discarded, the TD may enforce an order of show. The last aggressive player on the final betting round (final street) must table first. If there was no final round bet, the player who would act first in a final betting round must table first (i.e. first seat left of the button in flop games, high hand showing in stud, low hand in razz, etc.).
It varies by room. Hell, one room I worked at switched back and forth at least twice. I agree it seems the majority of rooms go by position if the river is checked down.
Changing the rule from last aggressor to closest to the sb may make it easier for the dealer but it certainly dumbs down the game imo.
I don’t really see why if a guy raises preflop and on the button, bb calls, and then they check it down, that the bb is entitled to know what the button’s hand is before showing.
Making the closest to the sb show first if there’s no action on the river simplifies things.
Changing the rule from last aggressor to closest to the sb may make it easier for the dealer but it certainly dumbs down the game imo.
But by position if river checked through has been the standard for over 20 yrs.
It may seem strange in NL/PL, but while checking through on river is rare, tracking last to act in limit with its 3 and 4 bets is more challenging.
Plus why does house care? Saves dealers tracking and then the ensuing table arguments.
All the rooms I play in now are doing the closest to the SB shows first if the river checks through.
The Borgota is the last room I played cash games in that was making the last person to bet on whatever street show first on the river. However that went away some years before Covid.
It speeds things up in general because there would be arguments about who bet last at least sometimes especially if the Dealer got it wrong.
The funny thing is that in most cash games I play in the Dealer almost never points to the guy who is closest to the SB and says "Please show your hand". The Dealers almost always say something like "Who has the winning hand?" or "Show me a winner"
It doesn't dumb down the game, come on. You've been doing it or thinking it was done differently for 49 years. Sleep on it at least.
Op may have got through by that it's really no difference, as everybody shows. Came to think of nobody said anything a couple of days ago when I declared all in, but the other guy showed first. Must sharpen up 😀
It is the norm for all ins at tournaments.
This was not an all in and was a cash game (presumably).
The rule changed to make the dealing more reliable. But fights about who showed first was just part of the game. Anyone who paid attention knew who was the last aggressor. It gave people who paid attention an edge by inducing the villain to show first.
Who shows first questions are so tiresome. Just turn over your damn hand. Information gained by winning this dance is not worth the squeeze.
This is all you need to see here .. lol .. well done that you still play/enjoy the game. Things change/evolve over time and if there's one thing about Poker it's that change is usually 'fought' against and is slow to travel throughout all the lands! Shoot, check-raising used to be against the rules in our Charity Rooms here in Michigan!
While one would think that it's not that hard to remember the last aggressor I think it's wise to keep the flow of each street/part of a poker hand uniform. So in the case of a checked River we just keep going around the table from the SB and ask each holding to be tabled.
However, in cases where you're pretty sure you have the best hand .. or approach the nuts .. it's probably better to just show and move onto the next hand. Obv in a checked-down spot the value of holdings increases since no one felt inclined to bet, so 'the nuts' will be much weaker than the actual nuts for the Board shown. GL
I’m glad we kept last aggressor in the home game. Too bad the casino killed the home game.
For me the advantage came more in limit in a loose game, where you could induce a dime raise by an unknown into a 150 pot to learn about what they play.
And after 1.37 seconds I say "You're first" while pointing at the appropriate player.
I don't want to tell a player to turn their hand up, he might want to fold and not contest the pot.
And in my life in casinos you would be the first (dealer to point at the player who has to show their cards first).
I have always been amazed that the dealers at casinos I play in don't do what you do.
But I think they don't do it because they want to make sure everybody will tip them when they win hands.
Most players in the 20/40 LHE game at Foxwoods I played in regularly for over 6 years were older men who grew up playing in games where the last bettor had to show first regardless of the street. So a lot of them wouldn't have taken kindly to being forced to show first. Now players in the hand could force them to show first but rather than do that the players who were supposed to show first would say like "I missed" or "A high" and the player with the winning hand would show it and win and we would move on. Because in cash games at Foxwoods the winning hand had to be shown anyway it meant that when it was obvious (which was most of the time) winning hands would be shown before the other player(s) showed their hands.
Early on when I started playing at casinos, if I was the last player to have bet I would show my hand first anyway even if I was in position on a checked river because I thought it was the right thing to do.
At my casino everybody at showdown shows. At times dealer reminds.
Just analyzed what showdown really is. River card out, at least two players matching each other's bet (or lack thereof)
But that is not standard. Most places you don’t even need to show if other players all discard. Most places once hand that beats you is shown, other players muck.
OK, at least the dealer or anybody else doesn't have to bother with the order. I read tda, problem with retrieving half mucked cards do we not have either. But forced face up only at all in looks to be the norm at least in the US.
Not in cash games. Cash, even all in, you can usually discard wo showing if you wish.
it's room dependent. However if the guy who bet the turn now doesn't wanna show otr after it goes c/c, you most likely won so I would just roll over my hand instead of making him show, but that's just me; it's just my style. Even if he was waiting to see my hand for "information" and then rolled over a winner, most of these players wouldn't even know how to use the information anyway.
For me the advantage came more in limit in a loose game, where you could induce a dime raise by an unknown into a 150 pot to learn about what they play.
Not sure how you used a checked down river to induce a dime raise. Not even sure I understand how showdown order on the river, induces extra bet on the turn. Have to know it is the rule AND expect that after I bet, the river is going to check through. If I raise or net the turn, in limit, except for really bad riversi e pect to bet or maybe raise the river (or fold). Been long time since I played any serious limit, but as I recall the keys to limit are winning that extra bb and being able to avoid that bb loss.
