LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

And not on the same team .
While the next 4 if not next 10 players are all on the same U.S. team .

Are u really arguing the dream team would not still crush today and the 2024 US team should not win pretty easily still ?

Good trolling .
Seem u abide to the obvious .
Thx .

Prime Kukoc was the 4th or 5th best player on the 2nd 3peat bulls. Tell us again how loaded that team was.

Lol Fraudguy smh

I recall Kukoc being heavily criticized itt but now he was a tour de force international player.

That's where everyone (aka media) is misperceiving this thing - Lebron, KD, Curry and company can do whatever they want out there... At best they face the equivalent of a 1-man team in the NBA, and at worst they face G-league competition or even much worse.

You guys should be able to tell that the comp is quite weaker because of the way Lebron hit those 2 winners in the friendlies.. I've never seen him hit a game-winner like that by stiff-arming for an extended session of good ol' bully-ball - show me where he did that in the league.. Show me where he even TRIED to do that in the Finals on the last possession... lol... Everyone begs for him to do that and he usually passes or tries to pull-up like MJ but has a fraction of the efficiency or fundamentals.. He honestly looked like any big man looks that is bullying his sons or something or smaller guys.. He doesn't look like that with the game on the line in the NBA.

Regarding Kukoc - among international comp and even the euroleague, Kukoc was the king and a goat candidate.. He's easily better than the majority of the international guys in these Olympics that have NBA experience.. He's probably a tad worse overall than Schroeder or something, or maybe a tad better.. it's splitting hairs... Among NBA comp, he's average (albiet a clutch shot-maker, aka "closer" that won four games at the buzzer for the 94' Bulls and another 10 in clutch-time.. By the time MJ got there in 95', Kukoc was on every scouting report and the blackboard read "close out hard on Kukoc")... Btw, I guarantee that the US would prefer a boss like Dino Radja over Embiid right now, and of course Petrovic is an all-timer and a previous candidate for goat shooter BC (before Curry).. Again, the USA annihilated these guys twice by 30+ without timeouts... And Bird played 12 minutes in the title game, while Laettner played 2 as well.

You think kukoc wouldn’t be the top player in South Sudan this year ?
Btw the other 2 players were pretty decent ( 1 of them made all nba 3rd team during mj peak seem decent) as well and u had 2 other players that were actually at least as good as South Sudan .

Power house or not , they only lost to US .

Kukoc was 23 and hadn't played a NBA game. Not sure I'd call that "prime".

Dino Radja was 24 and hadn't played a NBA game. Not sure I'd call that "prime".

Zan Tabak was 21 and hadn't played a NBA game. Not sure I'd call that "prime".

Petrovic at 27 is the only one that could be called "in his prime". At that stage his career achievements included a 2nd place finish in the MIP in that season.

But keep telling us how that ranks compared to say the Canadian team or any team with GA or the Joker.

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Casuals won't realize this is GOAT HANDLE and bird was ancient at this time - getting there with 2 dribbles like that - people think Bird didn't have capacity for modern handle, lol:

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This is peak Dino Radja at 24 years old from the 92' Olympics a few years before he came to NBA - that's a pretty good gather step for a big in 1992 - but he didn't get to the US until 26 years old, at which point he had injuries that would end his career very early - he was still dominant in the NBA for the short time that he was in there:

It's funny how you guys apply the situations that you know about (the progression and career cycle of young American players in 2024) to other situations that you know nothing about (the progression of Euro players in 1992).

It was widely common knowledge (and still is) that Radja, Kukoc, Sabonis and other Euro transfers were past their prime by the time they got over here because it always took several years to get them over here back then and they had played pro-ball since their teens in war-torn countries.

It was honestly disappointing to any Bulls fan in 1994 when Kukoc showed up as a slow-fatty version of Kukoc - he wasn't the quick, slender and prime Kukoc that looked like Magic Johnson on the

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhUq8NiKqKg&t=16s

YouTube

Toni Kukoc | Hall of Fame Career Retrospective

Regarding Dino Radja - it's same thing as Kukoc - he got over here when he was 26 years old in 94' when he was already starting to have injuries that would end his career early.. (the highlight above was from 92' Radja vs Dream Team)..

do they NEED ga or joker?

The current Dream Team all-but lost to South Sudan, while the original Dream Team was annihilating 3 candidates for GOAT international player (Petrovic, Radja, Kukoc) and other NBA players like Zan Tabak and Vrankovic.. The current team calls timeouts and can't even play all their players, while the original team called zero timeouts and always played Laettner for posterity.. There's no comparison...

And the reason the original Dream Team was so much better is because they had more talent, such as 6 MVP's to only 4 for the current team and 3 if we exclude Embiid.. Guys could shoot and dribble like Mullin, Stockton, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Drexler and Barkley (contrary to Cowherd's claim)... Then there's the issue of defense where today's team is a joke by comparison.

Kukoc came to the NBA and joined the Bulls at age 25.

So if Kukoc was one the GOAT international candidates in 92 at age 24 and then became a role player on a stacked bulls team by age 27 about 10 of your arguments in this thread fall apart.

I was actually referring to how loaded the Bulls were, who Fallguy always refers to as a team that Jordan won with no help because Pippen and crew were trash.

Cool

He must of eat amazing Cheerios during that Olympic summer .
U quote a year before the Olympic and the year after the Olympic he made allnba 3rd team .
Seem his peak was potentially during the Olympic or close to it .

It's weird how for any other player along the lines of a JR Smith, Kyle Korver, Battier, Mike Miller, KCP, Danny Green, Austin Reaves, Jordan Clarkson and the list goes on and on - for players of this caliber, you have no problem saying they're "not enough help" based on them being low-producers with bottom tier production rates like 12 ppg or whatever.. But when Kukoc is clearly this caliber of player, you want to say he's something more and part of a "stacked" roster.... And are you aware that another Lebron teammate - Anthony Parker - is also a candidate for goat Euroleague player?.. It doesn't necessarily that THAT much to do that.

And I'm not pulling it out of my ass that these euro's were considered past their prime by the time they got over here - it was and is common knowledge among anyone that followed the NBA back then, or was affiliated with the NBA such as media, players or teams.. Yes this means that teams knew they were getting a slightly-lesser version of guys like Radja or Kukoc, and significantly-lesser versions like Sabonis.. Kukoc is almost in that Sabonis category but not quite.

The Bulls were the only contender in the 90's that didn't have an elite-scoring threat or elite assist guy at sidekick, while also being among the only teams that lacked a 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th scorer like every other team had - MJ won 6 rings with a bunch of hustlers and a few defenders, and no rim protection.

MJ is considered to have won 6 chips with a "normal" organic casts of 1 franchise player, while Lebron never learned the chemistry required to win with 1 franchise player and opted for "super" teams of 3 franchise players - this is talent-based winning because all losses are blamed in needing more talent/help, while chemistry is ignored.. Of course the inability to develop great chemistry is skill-based, aka the reliance on ball-domination and imposing spot-up roles as opposed to having the expert jumpshooting skill to play off teammates and allow the ball to move.

The reason South Sudan played Team USA so closely in the exhibition can be chalked up to 3 point variance (Which the 1992 Dream Team didn’t have to face).

Team USA shot 7-28 from 3.
South Sudan shot 14-33 from 3.

Math and Numbers. I rest my case.

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CLEAR-CUT PROOF OF WIDE CONSPIRACY TO DEFLATE PLAYER WEIGHT OF PREVIOUS ERAS

This debunks the idea that previous eras weighed less, since the current-day sources are BS (2nd pic below):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFMN_IQR...

Previous eras always looked huge to me - guys like Ewing, Otis Thorpe, and so many guys - even Pippen - looked like bigger bone structures than today's lightweights - i NEVER BELIEVED the numbers on bballref - they always looked SO LOW

Your desperate attempt to flip a coin on this one doesn't explain the losses in 2002, 2004, 2006, or the 6 losses in the last 5 years since 2019.

Otoh, my reasoning explains everyting - the USA has lost ever since the GOAT retired because the "be like Mike" culture produced a bad 1-on-1 brand that subsisted in one form or fashion for the last 20 years.

If it just takes a bunch of unknown to be good at shooting 3 for a game to beat one of the greatest bb team ever in 2024 ( hum… ) I guess it show how true it is that this era of basketball is so far better and skilled then mj era o0 …

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Another one (weight deflation of players in previous eras by bballref)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyAxsI7w...

you are legit the worst poster i've seen anywhere ever

I'm 2 for 2 because I just happened to notice the Dennis Johnson weight discrepancy and so I looked for another one and instantly found it with Cedric Maxwell, shown above.. The CBS broadcasts list the weights during FT's so I'll get a lot more tomorrow when I do a deeper dive.

You've grown accustomed to and now prefer the status quo of making claims without showing your work or sources, so I can understand how my posts must seem foreign for including evidence and numbers to back up virtually every claim that I make.

Indeed it's a statistical fact that Lebron lowers his teammates' assists (playmaking) and increases their assisted rate (play-finishing and spot-up roles).. This imposition of spot-up roles prevents young player development and great chemistry, so he cannot have great-performing casts, aka great teams.. The lack of great chemistry requires more talent (more help), aka talent-based winning.

Furthermore, by lowering teammate assists, Lebron yields low TEAM assists and a brand that can't compete on the championship level (lottery record on championship level)... The common thread in every playoff loss for Lebron in the last 10 years are deficits in team assists..

Since high-scoring ball-dominators like Oscar, Luka, Lebron, SGA, Harden or Westbrook never produced an "unbeatable" team that mostly won for a stretch, and mostly lost regardless of who was put around them, they produce far less long-run title equity than skillsets that produce "unbeatable" teams and stretches of mostly winning (spurts of chips here and there).

Specifically, the best expert jumpshooters or centers have many examples of "unbeatable" teams, aka stretches of mostly winning with a team, such as Curry winning 3 chips in 4 years, or Duncan won 3 in 5, or MJ won 6 in 7.. Otoh, high-scoring ball-dominators never produced great teams and mostly lost with every cast, so they provide less title equity than the best bigs or the best expert jumpshooters that have many unbeatable teams and stretches of mostly winning.. Accordingly, the top 12 should be ranked by the skillset that produces the most long-run title equity, which likely means a mix of the best expert jumpshooters (MJ, Kobe, Bird, Curry) followed by the best centers (Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem), followed by the best ball-dominators (Lebron, Oscar).. Magic could be in the ball-dominator group and rank at #10 instead of Hakeem, who could be at #13.
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Ask Popovich about basketball, with it's increased volume of 3 point shooting, which has almost been reduced to flipping a coin.

I rest my case again, counselor.

Lol Curry won 3 chips in 4 years without winning a finals MVP. Curry vs Kobe is probably a fun debate.

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Another one