British Politics

British Politics

Been on holiday for a few weeks, surprised to find no general discussion of British politics so though I'd kick one off.

Tory leadership contest is quickly turning into farce. Trump has backed Boris, which should be reason enough for anyone with half a brain to exclude him.

Of the other candidates Rory Stewart looks the best of the outsiders. Surprised to see Cleverly and Javid not further up the betting, but not sure the Tory membership are ready for a brown PM.

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/bri...

Regarding the LD leadership contest, Jo Swinson is miles ahead of any other candidate (and indeed any of the Tory lot). Should be a shoe in.

Finally, it's Groundhog Day in Labour - the more serious the anti-Semitism claims get, the more Corbyn's cronies write their own obituary by blaming it on outlandish conspiracy theories - this week, it's apparently the Jewish Embassy's fault...

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01 June 2019 at 06:29 AM
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3652 Replies

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by jalfrezi k

Really? You’re well up on current affairs and I’m surprised you don’t know that one of the most repeated memes shouted by the fash at anyone who looks like a Muslim is that they’re paedos, especially in the West Midlands where some Muslims were involved in high profile cases

We obviously don't hang around in the same social media space. Never seen such a thing.

But thanks for explaining, I understand it now.

I think 'some muslims were involved in high profile cases' is a massive understatement of what happened with that set of systemic rape/torture-gangs btw. But let's not open that can of worms (I don't see it as a muslim thing btw, but I do see it as a poisonous toxic masculinity culture thing)


by Doctor Zeus k

I assumed he had a bunch of people on ignore cuz the tweet seemed directly linked to half of lucioms posts over the last two pages

I do indeed have that troll on ignore.


by diebitter k

We obviously don't hang around in the same social media space. Never seen such a thing.

But thanks for explaining, I understand it now.

I think 'some muslims were involved in high profile cases' is a massive understatement of what happened with that set of systemic rape/torture-gangs btw. But let's not open that can of worms (I don't see it as a muslim thing btw, but I do see it as a poisonous toxic masculinity culture thing)

I haven't looked into the West Midlands cases because there are only so many depressing things the mind can take at once, but suffice to say that much was made of Muslim grooming gangs and less so of whites, though I have nfi what proportion of each population was involved, so fair enough.


Ppl getting sentenced now

One guy who punched a police officer got 3 yrs.

Apparently 3000 ppl got done after the 2001 riots and these seem much worse


Remember when US politics looked like the laughing stock and we were on the way up?

Uhoh


by Doctor Zeus k

Ppl getting sentenced now

One guy who punched a police officer got 3 yrs.

Apparently 3000 ppl got done after the 2001 riots and these seem much worse

How many people got sentenced, and for how long, when 27 police officers got injured in 2020, during BLM riots?


by Dunyain k

It seems all we know is his parents are immigrants from Kenya and he was almost 18.

No, Rwanda. Where about 92% of the population is Christian (and only 2% Muslim, and the suspect doesn't have a Muslim name).


by Luciom k

by the people who allow unfiltered immigration, block deportations of all immigrants the instant they become a nuisance to the country, and who decide not to police immigrants with the same severity they police natives (or a lot more, as it would be normal historically).

elected politicians and civil servants

We don't have unfiltered immigration. That is precisely why the people-traffickers are in the business of trying to get round our immigration controls. And the only people who can try to block deportation orders are the lawyers of the people concerned, who are professionally obliged to do their best for the client. It then depends what the courts make of their objections, according to law.


by jalfrezi k

Really? You’re well up on current affairs and I’m surprised you don’t know that one of the most repeated memes shouted by the fash at anyone who looks like a Muslim is that they’re paedos, especially in the West Midlands where some Muslims were involved in high profile cases

The Rotherham and Rochdale grooming gangs were pretty much British-Pakistani. Then again, so was the prosecutor Nazir Afzal OBE, who had quite a lot to do with bringing the Rochdale gang to justice after the CPS had wokely stopped bothering for fear of accusations of racism. Not all of the provincial grooming gangs identified by police were Muslim and, as you've mentioned, there were a number of white perpetrators involved.


by Luciom k

How many people got sentenced, and for how long, when 27 police officers got injured in 2020, during BLM riots?

Your googles as good as mine


by 57 On Red k

We don't have unfiltered immigration. That is precisely why the people-traffickers are in the business of trying to get round our immigration controls. And the only people who can try to block deportation orders are the lawyers of the people concerned, who are professionally obliged to do their best for the client. It then depends what the courts make of their objections, according to law.

The issue as i see it is:
- immigration at levels higher than expected
- terrible efforts to manage the immigration
- isolating the negative impacts of the first two points on the poorest and most at risk in society

Whilst doing little to fix any of the three points


by Doctor Zeus k

The issue as i see it is:
- immigration at levels higher than expected
- terrible efforts to manage the immigration
- isolating the negative impacts of the first two points on the poorest and most at risk in society

Whilst doing little to fix any of the three points

Yep, sums it up. I'd parse out the second one to be 2 points (though you kind of addressed some of it in point 1)
- terrible efforts to manage the numbers involved
- terrible effort to support local authorities to be able to deal with these numbers, both directly and how it affects local community resources


or alternatively you could stop scapegoating minorities for the fact that your country is a pile of ****


by 72off k

or alternatively you could stop scapegoating minorities for the fact that your country is a pile of ****

All the points are addressed at the people in power not the minorities

But good talk bro


Another way of looking at it

- we have very serious problems with housing, heathcare, inequality etc
- some blame immigration
- we say it isn't immigration causing the problems
- no-one fixes the problems
- we piss in the wind while those blaming immigration get stronger


The other day, I was riding a bus through one of the more depressed parts of the northern English urban aggregation where I live, on my way to an Anglo Saxon-themed farm park adjacent to a historically important former monastery. In the 8th century, this was one of Europe’s most vital centers of learning; now, it’s next to a bus stop called “High Street” on a mostly derelict industrial estate, adjacent to a town where the only shop I could see open from the bus was a place called Expresso Slots (it was filled with slot machines, although thinking about the name, they maybe also did coffee).

bleak

For a long time now—at least since the Tories rose to power in 2010—we have had a government fundamentally hostile to life as it was once carried on in these places, a government that has systematically disinvested from communities like this and basically allowed them to die. In 2019, a UN report on the economic damage caused by the Tories’ economic austerity programme noted that life expectancy in the north of England had fallen at the sort of rate one would normally expect to observe on the losing side of a civil war, and that was before Brexit and the pandemic.

bleaker

A brief enthusiasm for “levelling up” the North turned out to be little more than a gimmicky way of doling out money to places that had voted Tory, and anyway were likely to be richer. Britain is bleak, and it’s only likely to get worse. It was a relief in July when we finally voted the Tories out, but the Labour government that has replaced them already seems determined to carry on the austerity.

this is obviously the problem, because:

The higher-education sector is almost completely financially reliant on foreign students, while almost all the economic growth the country has experienced since 2010 has been driven by immigration.

the more mainstream politicians tell racists in this country that they’re right about everything, the angrier the racists seem to get about it. Of course, it doesn’t help that the media has been gleefully stoking these fires for years.

i would add the media. they all agree that immigrants/minorities are the problem, so what do you expect to happen? congrats telling nazis that they're correct

anyway, do brexit 2 and kick out all the minorities, watch everything get even worse, and then find new scapegoats i guess. glgl

There is nothing left to lose but our Expresso Slots.

lmao


by 57 On Red k

No, Rwanda. Where about 92% of the population is Christian (and only 2% Muslim, and the suspect doesn't have a Muslim name).

Suspects parents were also involved with a local church


by Doctor Zeus k

Your googles as good as mine

Google these days sucks too much for any politically relevant search, as i think you know.

I keep getting stuff on the current "far right" riots when i google about that. I got links confirming arrests happened, but nada at all about actual people who got jail time.


by 57 On Red k

We don't have unfiltered immigration. That is precisely why the people-traffickers are in the business of trying to get round our immigration controls. And the only people who can try to block deportation orders are the lawyers of the people concerned, who are professionally obliged to do their best for the client. It then depends what the courts make of their objections, according to law.

I am pretty sure you got close to unfiltered immigration from commonwealth countries, and for relatives of people already in the country.

As for deportation, that it isn't fully automated that every single immigrant guilty of any crime is deported with 0 chance of appeal is truly incredible, or at least it would be if we didn't in many countries make the same mistake.

I hope you agree that committing a crime of any kind (not sure if in the UK you have the crime/misdemeanor divide, but anyway i mean any act which incurs into a sentence of "some years of jail) should be a lot more than enough to permanently, for life, deny you the right to ever again touch the ground of a country.


by diebitter k

Yep, sums it up. I'd parse out the second one to be 2 points (though you kind of addressed some of it in point 1)
- terrible efforts to manage the numbers involved
- terrible effort to support local authorities to be able to deal with these numbers, both directly and how it affects local community resources

One additional point - Asylum seekers/immigrants are routinely shipped off to the Northern cities at disproportionate rates. The very areas where the trouble in concentrated.

by 72off k

bleak

bleaker

this is obviously the problem, because:

i would add the media. they all agree that immigrants/minorities are the problem, so what do you expect to happen? congrats telling nazis that they're correct

anyway, do brexit 2 and kick out all the minorities, watch everything get even worse, and then find new scapegoats i guess. glgl

Cool story bro.


by chezlaw k

Another way of looking at it

- we have very serious problems with housing, heathcare, inequality etc
- some blame immigration
- we say it isn't immigration causing the problems
- no-one fixes the problems
- we piss in the wind while those blaming immigration get stronger

The last govt housed asylum seekers and immigrants in those communities struggling with housing healthcare etc.

Immigration isnt causing the problems. But putting people who arent allowed to work, fight for the same housing, and, have been deprived of good food means all those problems are exacerbated

I do think if gvts invested more in processing claims alof of the observable problems would go away. Put the rest in to investing where you say. And then make sure the impact of immigration is spread generally

Im also curious why London isnt impacted by riots as much this time round



by Doctor Zeus k

Im also curious why London isnt impacted by riots as much this time round

Might be because asylum seekers are routinely sent to less affluent parts of the UK.

You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.


by Elrazor k

Might be because asylum seekers are routinely sent to less affluent parts of the UK.

Makes sense.

Was wondering if the very diverse nature of London made it more hospitable too.

But does align to the fact alot of the tensions boiled up to how the tories created an underclass in multiple towns by failing to treat asylum seekers & immigrants with appropriate support


Oh scotlands untouched too, but NI seems to have the worst of it

Scotlands insanely diverse from the two cities ive lived in (and really succesfully so)

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