4-bet pot with asian minclicker
1/3 NLHE 9 handed
Table is loose passive and straightforward for the most part.
V - friendly asian kid that doesn't know the game that well. Losing player but has fun. I have only played with him a few times, once he showed me that he was folding JJ from the BB in a single raised pot with an opener and caller in position (auto-squeeze spot). I labelled him as a weak tight at that moment. Most of the time if he's putting real money in he has a monster. He isn't nearly aggressive enough with his thick value post flop, for example he'll just call with bottom set on a Q-6-3r but he'll raise or jam with QQ.
HH - Drunk losing loose passive straddles button, Hero sees KK in the SB and opens to 20, V in BB minclicks to 40, BTN calls, Hero remembers this guy is weak tight and just calls the minclick OOP. We're about 700$ eff. Flop As Ts 8d I have Ks. I check, V checks, donkey bets 100 into 120, V and I fold. Donkey says he had QT and we both laugh. V says he had JJ which surprised me.
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One loose passive sfwd limps MP, folds to H in CO who opens A♦ K♦ to 15 off the effective stack of 767$ (V went super deep flopping top set in a 4-way AI earlier and covers me), V 3-bets to 35 OTB, blinds and limper fold, H 4-bets to 100, V calls quickly. HU OOP.
Flop 200 (667 back) - K♥ 7♣ 4♣
Hero bets 50, V raises to 150, H tank calls
Turn 500 (517 back) - 6♥
H checks, V jams, Hero?
17 Replies
Fold pre.
Don't donk flop.
Fold flop to raise.
Fold turn.
why are you 4betting AK pre vs a guy that folds JJ pre to a single raise?
The read where he folded JJ from the BB is from a few weeks ago. I remember him from then, this session when he minclicked me and said he had JJ I believed him. This made me reassess what I thought of him. He's always got premium of course.
He's also pretty straightforward postflop so I think I can navigate.
Call the jam.
Don't fold preflop, lol.
I think I would fold turn. I don't know if this guy has any bluffs here (if he does they have a lot of equity - A5cc might make sense) so it feels like you are calling to chop and may still lose to AA or the one combo of KK. It's also pretty brutal if he has either of the two freeroll combos of AKs.
With regard to the first hand history, when I see a bad player cold call and I have the option to 4b squeeze with a good hand, I take it basically every time. If you think V always has aces in this spot, just fold when he jams.
I don't really think these spots have really much to talk about.. its really player dependent and you are the one who has played with him, how does he see you? How is the session going for him?
The call with KK in the previous hand is really bad IMO, I hate to 4b Fold KK but vs a player who clearly doesn't have a 5b bluff range its way better.
This hand I would call the preflop 3bet, as played I would fold flop or call turn, so I would say fold flop, now call.
Check-raise flop. Stop c-betting from OOP.
As played, flat call his flop raise.
As played on flop, I probably donk turn for $200, and fold if he raises, knowing we're always beat.
But, as played, I think we just have to call. He could be over-playing worse. Otherwise, we're likely chopping or losing to AA/KK. He has more worse combos and chops than AA/KK.
I'm cool with the raise preflop.
Think I'd just flat the 3bet. Not loving being OOP against what will be a tight range, and our IO vs RIO kinda suck, but against a losing player having fun I don't think I can fold for this price. Not a fan of 4betting against a nuttish range at all (much closer to a fold than a 4bet, imo).
Think I mostly check the flop as we don't want him to fold underpairs. If betting, I like our small sizing. Brutal spot facing the flop raise. We're hoping for a chop at best cuz a guy who folds JJ preflop to a single raise is never 3bet/calling KQ. Think I make an insane exploitative fold here, TBH.
And now folding the turn for same reasons as flop, except we're up against even more strength here cuz our hand looks like the minnish hand we can have and he doesn't care for gobs of $$$.
GcluelessNLnoobG
How does the population play when they're up big?
1. Bad reg - plays nitty to lock up the win.
2. Bad rec - plays splashy, because he's playing with other people's money.
3. Good reg - continues to play his best game while the game is good.
If our read is right, this kid sounds like a bad rec. All the more reason to let him punt, rather than being the punter.
I like a check call on flop, delay cbet if he checks back. It’s not so much pot control as it is extracting value from his air. Let him start punting.
It also caps our range and lets us get value on later streets from a hand like QQ. How many times do we hear “you would’ve bet the flop with xxx so I knew you had nothing?” This is our chance to rep nothing.
As far as 4b pre I might just call vs this guy. Then we can naturally check most flops.
Check-raise flop. Stop c-betting from OOP.
As played, flat call his flop raise.
As played on flop, I probably donk turn for $200, and fold if he raises, knowing we're always beat.
But, as played, I think we just have to call. He could be over-playing worse. Otherwise, we're likely chopping or losing to AA/KK. He has more worse combos and chops than AA/KK.
lol you are saying you would donk 200 on the turn and fold to 317 more when the pot will be 1,534 if you call? This is bad advice. As played call the jam. Flop you can either call or get it in.
This is a 4bet pot. Don't check AK on a wet king high board. We get it you it, you heard Marc Goone say something that made sense. But this is a 4b pot. Not a spot where you 3b from the blinds or a single raised pot where you got cold called from the button.
V can have AK or worse Kx. He can have KcXc. He can have other clubs. Call.
call turn, unblocking the K of clubs is huge.
i don't peg someone who folds jacks pre in that spot as a turbonit automatically. bad players will fold jacks because "jacks are the worst hand, they always lose".
I don't think I've ever folded AK tptk on a wet two tone flop to a raise in my life.
sevens/sixes/fours probably get folded out preflop and I don't see what we're really scared of here. this hand is the nuts just stack off.
really our decision is do we stack off on the flop or do we peel 1 and stack off on every card that isn't a club. it wasn't a club so put the money in the middle.
lol you are saying you would donk 200 on the turn and fold to 317 more when the pot will be 1,534 if you call? This is bad advice. As played call the jam. Flop you can either call or get it in.
This is a 4bet pot. Don't check AK on a wet king high board. We get it you it, you heard Marc Goone say something that made sense. But this is a 4b pot. Not a spot where you 3b from the blinds or a single raised pot where you got cold called from the button.
V can have AK or worse Kx. He can have Kc
Fair enough. It's been a few weeks since I posted that. I suppose I may not have been paying attention to the stack sizes, or been thinking about it as a 3B pot, rather than a 4B pot.
I'm not entirely disagreeing with your view. But when V takes this line, I expect him to show up with some weird yet thick value, at least some of the time.
Unless someone is 3-betting a lot, I usually wouldn't 4-bet in a 1-3 games without at least KK.
I know GTO likes 1/4 pot cbets, but sizing is bad and makes it harder to read his raise.
Okay but can we talk about the preflop overcall with KK?
