The CCP Moderation Discussion Thread (please read OP before posting)
Welcome to the CCP Moderation Discussion Thread. This is the place to post comments or questions about the moderation of the Casino & Cardroom Poker Forum. If you have any issues on moderations, put them here, and not in the particular thread that the issue arose in.
Everyone is welcome to share their thoughts on topics here. As with all the threads throughout LCP, personal insults and demeaning or disparaging comments in either direction will not be permitted. Keep your posts focused on the issue to be considered/resolved, and not on any personal slights or attacks.
We want the CCP Moderation Thread to be a valuable conduit to raise issues, discuss pros and cons, and when appropriate modify policy. The goal is to continue to improve our forum, to make it as welcoming and enjoyable a place as we can. We encourage anyone with ideas to make the forum better to bring them up.
The forum guidelines are here: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27/li....
21 Replies
But please be cognizant of the purpose of the thread, and post sparingly only when you have something particular to add to the discussion.
Not entirely forbidden. (Bobby's Breakroom)
Bobby’s Breakroom is probably the best thread in the entire 2+2 forum and I’m thrilled to see the mod(s) taking a more aggressive stance towards all the non-employees continually junking up the thread. I’m not sure what’s so difficult about the concept of if you don’t work in the industry you have zero business posting in the thread. It’s that simple. Yet there are non-employees that have hundreds of posts there!
Should there be another thread created where randoms can ask employees questions about what is discussed in the breakroom? It would of course devolve into the typical **** storm of a thread but at least it would keep the breakroom thread clean for the staffers to do their thing.
Do you really think my asking what two acronyms mean is "junking up the thread"? When one of them is something even the mod didn't understand?
Also, how exactly do you know who is an employee and who isn't? I "work in the industry".
Do you really think my asking what two acronyms mean is "junking up the thread"? When one of them is something even the mod didn't understand?
Also, how exactly do you know who is an employee and who isn't? I "work in the industry".
I did not call any individual out, I simply pointed out that non-employee posts junk up this great thread.
I don't know exactly who is an employee and who is not, I have simply read this thread for many years now and appreciate the insight from the inside. Although it is usually easy to tell who is an employee and who is not.
But I do remember this.
No, I am not a card room employee. But I think the person who originally suggested the name was, and the reason it was suggested was because of the similarly to the Bellagio high limit room.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27/ca...
Now that has been a while, perhaps something has changed. But that's for a mod to decide.
All I'm saying is that in my opinion the thread is infinitely better with employee only chatter and I appreciate the mod(s) recent statements on this. Not my decision either way. You have your opinion, I have mine.
The rules also say it’s not a place for people to ask general questions of the employees
Question is if it should be clinically free from others posting. Then it should read in post #1. Now it states "post sparingly"
Yes, I know your comment wasn't specifically directed at me, but the moderator specifically criticized me and then you said you liked the crackdown.
There were several other non-dealers who made long opinion posts in the last few days, but those were not criticized. All I did was ask what two acronyms meant. I don't think if I randomly asked that question in another thread it would make sense.
Also, there is a difference between being a card room employee and working in the industry. I replied to the one you mentioned, then you quoted back the other.
Looks intolerance put this forum asleep.
Maybe not intolerance, but misunderstanding. Bobby's Breakroom has a grey area, how much can non-employees post? Some non-employees read Post #1 as they can post some, if it adds to the discussion, others see it as it should be employees only. Add to that how to define "employee". These expectations may never meet well in the end. When in the forum it's not always easy to distinguish where you post and with which rules.
Maybe Bobby's Breakroom should be given its own subforum or sticky in CCP, so it would be easily distinguishable, and then clearly for active card room employees only?
You are talking to yourself and way overestimating how many people are confused about that thread.
A smaller amount may be enough for conflict and bad vibes at times.
Apologies for the delay in response. I have been traveling a lot the past couple weeks and this one got away from me.
Question is if it should be clinically free from others posting. Then it should read in post #1. Now it states "post sparingly"
Correct, not entirely forbidden. Somewhat by design it is a little bit permissive. But we should do what the OP says, and treat it like the employee breakroom. If you're not an employee, and you're posting in that thread, you should have a good reason for being there, just like you should have a good reason for being in the employee breakroom at the casino.
Sometimes accidents happen. It's a single thread with special restrictions inside a forum where you can generally post in every other thread at will. Occasionally someone will miss the fact that they are responding in the breakroom thread (I have done this myself plenty of times). Most of the time things move on fine, and that is fine, and I don't do anything (or even notice sometimes). Sometimes I might move the offending posts (and their replies) somewhere else if it makes sense. Sometimes I might just delete them if that is the easiest or best solution, but I don't think I do this very often.
I don't generally moderate accidents or other small intrusions there unless it is snowballing and causing lots of non-employee posts, or it's from someone I've warned before, or it's a blatant case of arguing with the employee that they are doing something wrong.
I generally think that the employees who post there are fine with this approach, but if anything I think they would probably want more moderation not less.
Also, how exactly do you know who is an employee and who isn't? I "work in the industry".
This is also a bit of an issue but one that I try to finesse as best I can. For many posters who have been in CCP a while, they will have identified themselves as dealers at some point, and I just kinda know who they are. Or vice versa, they have posted as players enough that I consider them players, not employees. (You are in this category for me, but at least in part because we play the same game and post in some of the same other forums so I know you are a player.) For some I will check previous posts to see if I can make an educated guess, but generally only if they are being a nuisance in the thread and I have some time to do some PI work. I will try to make user notes about people who are not obviously employees for future reference.
If in doubt, I will generally leave a post there, especially if it's not disruptive. The more it's inserting itself into someone else's conversation the more likely I am to do something about it.
But I'm definitely not the casino employee police, and I'm not going to catch every non-employee posting there, and may occasionally delete a post from someone who is an EE. I suggest that is probably the best we're going to get without a massive amount of extra work by someone, but I'm all ears if anyone has a better suggestion.
As for "work in the industry", I guess I'll leave it to the casino employees to decide if that is enough for them, but on its face I would say not generally. Treat it like an employee breakroom. If you would feel comfortable going into the breakroom at the casino holding whatever industry position you have, then sure. If you're comfortable defending your "being in the industry" to the other regulars in that thread, then go for it I guess.
Yes, I know your comment wasn't specifically directed at me, but the moderator specifically criticized me and then you said you liked the crackdown.
It wasn't really intended as a direct criticism of you, rob, though perhaps it came off that way. (And as an aside, we have met in person and I enjoyed it, it's definitely not personal.)
It was more that there had just been a spate of non-employee posts, and I had just a few days before posted a reminder that it was the breakroom thread, and then you (a non-employee in my mind) asked a question of one of the employee posters, and I was just trying to reinforce the message. Had I not been on my phone I would have just moved it to LC or something and answered it there, probably, but since I couldn't do it then I instead answered and left a note about moving it later. (Which I never got around to doing, heh.)
In retrospect I do agree it was borderline for needing to be moderated at all, you just got unlucky that you posted it so soon after I had made a request to remember that it was the breakroom thread. (And I'm not sure what other posts that didn't get moderated you're referring to, as far as I can tell every post between yours and my earlier reminder were from employees.)
Maybe not intolerance, but misunderstanding. Bobby's Breakroom has a grey area, how much can non-employees post? Some non-employees read Post #1 as they can post some, if it adds to the discussion, others see it as it should be employees only. Add to that how to define "employee". These expectations may never meet well in the end. When in the forum it's not always easy to distinguish where you post and with which rules.
Maybe Bobby's Breakroom should be given its own subforum or sticky in CCP, s
I'm totally open to having the employees get together and come up with a different or more detailed set of posting rules, that wouldn't bother me at all. It's their thread. I don't personally think it will be worth it, but maybe this set of posts proves differently.
I highly doubt it will get its own subforum, given that it's a single thread in an already lightly posted in forum. I'm not sure what giving it its own sticky would accomplish, either.
Wow, great answer!
Dinesh, I know it wasn't personal against me, but it did seem odd that you criticized that instead of the previous three people who chimed in the previous few days with their opinions about how dealers should handle particular things, which actually did seem weird to me.
At least I think none of them are dealers because they all referred to "dealers" as if they were not one, and I know one is a pro poker player.
I certainly was not claiming that I had any more right to participate than other non-employees, I was just annoyed with the guy in this thread who seemed incinsed about my post but then couldn't get his definition straight.
I am not a cardroom employee, but I do work in the industry, and I have applied for jobs in cardrooms. While my recent post was not related to that, I do think it would be reasonable for people looking for jobs in a cardroom to be able to ask questions about that kind of thing. Of course it would be up to individuals whether or not they felt like answering.
Apologies for the delay in response. I have been traveling a lot the past couple weeks and this one got away from me.
Correct, not entirely forbidden. Somewhat by design it is a little bit permissive. But we should do what the OP says, and treat it like the employee breakroom. If you're not an employee, and you're posting in that thread, you should have a good reason for being there, just like you should have a good reason for being in the employee breakroom at the casino.
Sometimes accidents
That kind of subjectivity is designed to invite problems. Even reading all of those paragraphs gives no indication as to how much non-employee (or quasi-employee) discussion should take place in that particular thread.
That kind of subjectivity is designed to invite problems. Even reading all of those paragraphs gives no indication as to how much non-employee (or quasi-employee) discussion should take place in that particular thread.
Still it probably is worth having, for all parts. At least at the moment non-dealers simply don't post, already reading is interesting.
That kind of subjectivity is designed to invite problems. Even reading all of those paragraphs gives no indication as to how much non-employee (or quasi-employee) discussion should take place in that particular thread.
Wrong. Subjectivity is exactly what we want from mods, because they have to know the history of people, the culture of the community, how the rules have been applied in the past, when to show leniency, etc… And all we can ask of these unpaid volunteers is that they try to be as fair and levelheaded as possible when applying rules. Almost every forum realizes at some point that this is the case, because in a lot of cases strictly applying every single rule every time would result in valuable members of the community being banned or just leaving in frustration. So the mods always have to balance being strict rule nerds and making sure the health of the community is maintained in any well-run forum.
Dinesh has chastised me in the past (rightfully so) and deleted my posts when they were off topic or rude. Not frequently but at least a couple times. No hard feelings though because I can tell he means well and is trying his best at an UNPAID position (at least I assume it is if it’s like any other forum).
The lack of posts in this forum absolutely cannot be blamed on Dinesh moderating a thread after being pretty lapse for a while and not saying anything. He was actually being very nice in not saying much in the past and only coming down after getting some complaints. That’s exactly the type of moderation that is good for a forum, because it is not overly punitive.
Sometimes people just don’t have anything to talk about, and these things ebb and flow. I certainly would never want to be a mod on a forum and respect those that do it just for the love of the community.
That kind of subjectivity is designed to invite problems. Even reading all of those paragraphs gives no indication as to how much non-employee (or quasi-employee) discussion should take place in that particular thread.
Don't post in it unless they invite you in because there's leftover food from a holiday party or someone's giving you a ride home after their shift. Or you accidentally walk in when you're drunk.
Wrong. Subjectivity is exactly what we want from mods, because they have to know the history of people, the culture of the community, how the rules have been applied in the past, when to show leniency, etc… And all we can ask of these unpaid volunteers is that they try to be as fair and levelheaded as possible when applying rules. Almost every forum realizes at some point that this is the case, because in a lot of cases strictly applying every single rule every time would result in valuable memb
I'm glad that you think Dinesh is very good at subjective moderation. Most decisions involve judgment calls. My post was to point out that someone reading his several paragraphs would be no closer to knowing what that judgment will be going forward.
His post made me think he can handle it. Combined with not posting there myself I can go happily forwards.
No guarantees otherwise, that''s the nature of the game.
That kind of subjectivity is designed to invite problems. Even reading all of those paragraphs gives no indication as to how much non-employee (or quasi-employee) discussion should take place in that particular thread.
If one doesn't like the subjective approach, I'll invite them to use this less subjective one: if you're not a cardroom employee, don't post in that thread.
Everyone else who is comfortable with it can continue to follow the more subjective rules currently in place.
