Giving SSN. Bad idea or doesn't really matter?
Long story short. I play 2 days a week. I've never cashed over 10k, but they "require" my SSN sometimes when I cash out (usually anywhere between 3k to 9k when I cash out and they ask). I've always refused. They denied cashing me out last week because of it. Last night they tried to again. I got lottery to come down. They cashed me out but the cashier said for now on they will refuse if she sees me.
I just really prefer not to because it's my SSN. I've had someone who somehow got a hold of it open jewelry store accounts in the past then pawn a ton of jewelry under my name. I have nothing to hide. No kids so no child support, I don't owe the government money or anything.
I've been told by other players never give them my SSN. I've been told by others it's not a big deal at all. Just curious as to what other people think.
Okay so from how it sounds, it really isn't a big deal to give it to them and I might as well just do it. I've heard many different things that make it sound like a bad idea and to just not do it like the possibility of them wanting to see records of wins/losses at the end of the year, tax types of things, among other pain in the ass stuff. I'm not trying to avoid taxes. I'm just trying to avoid anything that might cause a headache in the future. Who's to say I could have 200k in cash outs but I
Supplying you SSN for a CTR has nothing to do with taxes. If you have a taxable event at the casino, you will get a tax form. A CTR for a $200k cash out will not alone trigger any necessary action. BTW be careful, just because you have corresponding losses of $250K, you still may have to prove this. And they filing may certainly be more complicated than just claiming the offset.
Also note a CTR can be required for buying chips not only cash outs. If you buy $10K of chips with cash, they should file a CTR. In fact if you buy $5000 and later bust and rebuy another $5000, they are supposed to get the info to file a CTR. But just like the CTR for a cash out does not imply income, a CTR for a cash purchase is not evidence for a deduction or loss.
Supplying you SSN for a CTR has nothing to do with taxes. If you have a taxable event at the casino, you will get a tax form. A CTR for a $200k cash out will not alone trigger any necessary action. BTW be careful, just because you have corresponding losses of $250K, you still may have to prove this. And they filing may certainly be more complicated than just claiming the offset.
Also note a CTR can be required for buying chips not only cash outs. If you buy $10K of chips with cash, they should f
That's what I don't feel like dealing with, proving my losses if it comes down to it. Without my SSN I should most likely never have to deal with that. I really don't think it would be an issue to provide my SSN but it's more a "better safe than sorry" situation. I'd just hate to be in a crappy situation because I provided it, but it sounds like I could be in an even worse one if I don't (getting banned). They're already doing an investigation. I told lottery go ahead it's fine, when I play, what time I was there that night, etc. Since I have nothing to hide. But now I'm worried the casino might just say we don't feel like dealing with you, get out and don't come back.
If "they" are "doing an investigation" you are far more likely to also see IRS get involved as a result.
We've now switched to a completely different topic, but on the subject of taxes owed:
* You owe them whether or not the casino gives you paperwork
* If you're a recreational gambler, you can't just net your wins and losses
* You must declare your wins (per session), and can't even deduct your losses unless you itemize, which most people don't do especially in the last few years since they increased the standard deduction
* You should contact a tax attorney about it rather than listen to internet people like us if you have any questions
Anyway, you do you. You've gotten all the good advice there is to give on these topics.
That's what I don't feel like dealing with, proving my losses if it comes down to it. Without my SSN I should most likely never have to deal with that. I really don't think it would be an issue to provide my SSN but it's more a "better safe than sorry" situation. I'd just hate to be in a crappy situation because I provided it, but it sounds like I could be in an even worse one if I don't (getting banned). They're already doing an investigation. I told lottery go ahead it's fine, when I play, wha
Whether you owe taxes on gambling wins, need to prove this, etc have NOTHING to do with filing a CTR and providing your SSN.
CTRs, while they can be accessed by IRS, are not normally provided to IRS. If IRS audits you, they might pull any CTRs filed in your SSN. But giving your SSN for a CTR will not trigger anything at IRS.
Giving your SSN, again it is required, for certain wins in the casino, will go to the IRS along with the proper paperwork. Liver Poker cash play wins will not trigger this. A BBJP or similar large enough "win", will trigger IRS paperwork including a requirement to provide SSN. For those wins, if casino doesn't already have your SSN or you don't provide it when asked, you simply will not get paid. Period. The casino has zero say in these things. But for tax advice seek the advice of a lawyer and/or a accountant.
I am not sure who "lottery" is or who is doing an investigation or what they are investigating. The thing to remember is casinos are monitored by the feds particularly around potential money laundering and the regs the casino must follow. This is why nearly all non-reservation casinos no longer allow cash to play. (GNLV is the only exception I know of but I am sure there area few others.) The feds literally contacted the casinos several years ago and warned they would be watched closely and needed to implement AML processes concerning cash in play.
So while the casino loves to have you in there and 'giving them money' (not much if a live poker only player), they care much more about their license and any fines. If you become a squeaky wheel w.r.t. these issues, they will simply choose to fire your as a customer. If you happen to be a mega whale, they probably will have a discussion to inform you of the risk. But if you are like most of us, they will simply ask you to leave and never return.
It is nothing against you per se. They just do not want to run the risk of the feds coming down on them for something you did or did not do.
So yes, you have a chance of being kicked out. I do not know any of your fact details or the casino involved. IANAL, but imo the best thing to do is do what the casino asks, when they ask, w/o making a fuss. At least where financial transactions are concerned. "Firing" customers is becoming much more a thing. But also remember, the casino is supposed to be held to the same standards for safeguarding the infomation they collect from you.
Just make up a fake one
8675309
A SSN is 9 digits, so if you're gonna write down a random one (although it's not advised) at least make sure it's 9 digits and not someone's phone number from the 90's (if they're over 40 it would be a dead give away).
Treasury's explanation of structuring: https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/fil...
I hate to nitpick but the amount that triggers a CTR is OVER $10,000. A buy in or cash out for $10,000 in cash exactly or below will not require a CTR be filed.
I hate to nitpick but the amount that triggers a CTR is OVER $10,000. A buy in or cash out for $10,000 in cash exactly or below will not require a CTR be filed.
Actually while REQUIRED in excess of $10K, the institution can choose a lower threshold if they want. Many casinos are appreciably lower because they are concerned over multiple transactions tripping the limit since it is an aggregate $10K. Theoretically if a casino thought you were going to buy in for $1K ten or more times today, they could, should (and are required if total exceeds $10K) complete CTRs.
Can you name one regulated operation which will not file a CTR for a cash transaction of exactly $10K?
CTR is not filed for smaller amounts, at least not anywhere I've worked. They do record smaller amounts, but they only file a CTR if you hit $10k total for the day.
So it is in the casino's system that you cashed out for $3k or whatever, but that doesn't go to the government.
Can absolutely, positively confirm that at least some places (I definitely know of a couple since I had them do "it" "on me". These were places that had no problem telling me they were filing a CTR. (Unlike SARs, the person can be told of a CTR if the filer chooses to do so.) In once case is was a cash out for "only" $3900 or so. It was my third cash out in 24 hours (conclusion of the night before session early in the AM, when I cashed out for dinner and a show with wife and then when I cashed out the end the night.) The total of the three was under or barely over $5000.
I also worked at a place (completely unrelated to poker, casinos or gambling) where we filed between $7500 and $10,000, depending on the specific details related to the transaction and counter party. We were not allowed by internal policy to inform the person even if asked. Happened VERY rarely as seldom did we deal in cash and very seldom less than $10K, but it did come up rarely (though never to me personally. I am only going by how I was trained along with others.)
What really stinks about this whole thing is that it's irrelevant to how much of the cash out is 'new' money to the person. A Player may be into the game for 6-7k and end up a winner .. and end up on a report!
Solution? Play better earlier in your sessions! GL
What really stinks about this whole thing is that it's irrelevant to how much of the cash out is 'new' money to the person. A Player may be into the game for 6-7k and end up a winner .. and end up on a report!
Solution? Play better earlier in your sessions! GL
That is why a single CTR means noting. If there are"many" then someone might look into what is going on, but unless something is really off they will simply note why and file away.
They are looking for patterns that do not match the situation.
