U.S. Supreme Court Ruling: ATHEISM IS RELIGION
ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:
Atheism is Religion according to the 1961 Torcaso v. Watkins case that was affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court--the highest court in the land--where court rulings become national law. As recently as 2005, the Wisconsin Federal Court ruling on the matter of Kaufman v. McCaughtry again ruled that Atheism is Religion. In spite of the many court rulings along that line, members of the Religion of Atheism insist they are not religious.
Atheist religionists frequently attempt to take the higher ground by insisting that because of belief in God, Christians and other theists have committed all sorts of human rights violations in the name of "cultish religions." According to the many atheists I have debated at other websites, it is the belief in God that has caused people to commit the various atrocities common to sinful mankind. Remove religion, belief in God, and belief in the Bible--the atheists frequently argue--and the world will be a better place. This latter conclusion is flawed for the following reasons:
1. Atheism is itself a religion.
2. Atheists have committed human rights violations en masse throughout history and have killed far more people than have those claiming to be theists. For instance, Joseph Stalin--the atheist--ordered the deaths of between 40 million to 62 million of his own Russian people (20 million of whom were everyday Soviet civilians). Compare that to the 9 million or so killed by Adolph Hitler, the Roman Catholic who merely claimed he was a Christian. The point being, anybody can claim they are a theist.
In reality, the problem is not the Bible or God. The problem is false religions that have failed to teach the masses Biblical truths. Blaming God for the crimes of people whose behaviors he himself rejects is an attempt at passing the buck.
"See! This only I have found, that the true God made mankind upright, but THEY THEMSELVES have sought out many plans." (Ecclesiastes 7:29)
DISCUSSION POINTS:
1. Considering that atheists have themselves committed human rights violations under the banner of non-belief in a supernatural God or gods, why can one argue that "belief in god" is not the actual reason behind crimes against humanity?
2. Atheists routinely argue they do not belong to a religion. According to them, non-belief in God is proof positive that they are not religious. The U.S. Supreme Court and other U.S. courts say otherwise. What arguments can you present to effectively dispute the court rulings?
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
DesertCat:
Do you understand that the word "equivalent" means:
"having the same amount, value, purpose, qualities, etc.:"
Alter2Ego
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Here is a definition of equivalence .
You are just an atheist that believes in 1 god more then an atheist (which is 0 for us)
Both an atheist and you reject all other gods (in the thousands) created before the one u believe in it now …
Sadly u should use the same robust evidences for other religion to be true before rejecting them , like you do for Christianity.
But you dont .
You are just bias for this one for I don’t know what reason .
That is maybe the most important question u should ask yourself .
No...just no. Believing in a universe without a divine creator subsequently entails many corresponding beliefs you must hold to to have that belief. Thus it's most certainly a worldview.
And lmfao, Dyer crushed Dillamonkey.
Do you have a link to the full debate, I’ve only been able to find clips and I’d like to watch everything in context.
And can you list specific points you think Dyer made that Dillahunty couldn’t refute, or that refutes specific Dillahunty positions? I’ll pay those sections extra attention.
Do you understand what equivalent for the purposes of legal protections afforded under the first amendment means?
You keep wanting to make a victory dance over legal rulings treating atheism as deserving the same legal protections as religions, and its unclear why. If Atheism truly was a religion, wouldn't it trivialize the very definition of that which you hold dear?
DesertCat:
Of course I do. So does everyone with reading comprehension skills. It means what the U.S. Supreme Court said, namely: "Atheism is Religion."
DesertCat:
Of course I do. So does everyone with reading comprehension skills. It means what the U.S. Supreme Court said, namely: "Atheism is Religion."
No you don't.. If I was in prison and saw that a bunch of people can hang out with their friends on Sunday instead of being miserable in their locked rooms for an hour, I would pretend to worship the Tooth Fairy to get equal treatment.
Equivalent protection with respect to legal protections afforded under the First Amendment doesn't mean that it classifies Atheism as a religion.
I can explain further if you would like.
No you don't.. If I was in prison and saw that a bunch of people can hang out with their friends on Sunday instead of being miserable in their locked rooms for an hour, I would pretend to worship the Tooth Fairy to get equal treatment.
Equivalent protection with respect to legal protections afforded under the First Amendment doesn't mean that it classifies Atheism as a religion.
I can explain further if you would like.
Eldrick:
See Post 26 within this thread where yet another U.S. court declared "Atheism is Religion." Below is the weblink that will take you directly there.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
Alter2Ego
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
https://www.britannica.com/topic/atheism
Generally atheism is a denial of God or of the gods, and if religion is defined in terms of belief in spiritual beings, then atheism is the rejection of all religious belief.
I wonder what religion means for you .
It’s like I’m a voter , I have a choice between a republican or a democrat .
I end up not voting -> your response is :
Well you voted by not voting even tho I don’t know who it benefited for as a result ….
Alter2Ego:
In the very article you cited - "The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a "religion" for purposes of the First Amendment" - Please note the QUOTE MARKS
Based on what the cited article said, a child's belief (or anyone's) in unicorns could be considered a religion.
Do you believe a belief in Unicorns is a religion?
Alter2Ego,
The Supreme Court also has ruled that a union between two men is a marriage. Do you agree? Does this prove that homosexual marriages are actual marriages? Note: I believe they are and I have no issue with them. I strongly suspect, though, that you would disagree.
The point is that you don’t get to pick and choose. Either the Supreme Court’s rulings prove both that atheism is a religion AND that homosexual unions are real marriages or the rulings prove neither. Which position are you taking?
Plus “Legally equivalent” is not really the same thing as equivalent. For instance a legal guardian is legally equivalent to a parent in all matters concerning decision making on behalf of a minor. The two are obviously not fully equivalent though. If a child is sick and needs a bone marrow transplant, for example, the non-equivalence becomes clear - there is a much better chance that the parent will be a match.
Alter2Ego:
In the very article you cited - "The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a "religion" for purposes of the First Amendment" - Please note the QUOTE MARKS
Based on what the cited article said, a child's belief (or anyone's) in unicorns could be considered a religion.
Do you believe a belief in Unicorns is a religion?
Eldrick:
The court said at line three of the first paragraph of that same transcript, which I bolded it in red: "We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion."
On the first line of the second paragraph, the court also said: "The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a "religion" for purposes of the First Amendment on numerous occasions,"
Alter2Ego
________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Eldrick:
The court said at line three of the first paragraph of that same transcript, which I bolded it in red: "We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion."
On the first line of the second paragraph, the court also said: "The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a "religion" for purposes of the First Amendment on numerous occasions,"
Alter2Ego
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its like saying corporations talks because under the first amendments giving money is a form of free speech.
Does that mean corporation actually speak and are human being ?
Eldrick:
The court said at line three of the first paragraph of that same transcript, which I bolded it in red: "We have already indicated that atheism may be considered, in this specialized sense, a religion."
On the first line of the second paragraph, the court also said: "The Supreme Court has recognized atheism as equivalent to a "religion" for purposes of the First Amendment on numerous occasions,"
Alter2Ego
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In the case you are discussing here, the court has ruled that if inmates are granted certain privileges based on professed belief in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, or some other recognized religion, then an inmate professing to be an atheism and requesting similar privileges based on that profession of atheism cannot be denied his request. That is the sense in which atheism is equivalent to a religion. The court did not say atheism is a religion, merely that atheists must be treated in equivalent manner (within the scope of the ruling) as religious believers.
Even had the court ruled more broadly that atheism is a religion, the court’s scope is limited to matters of law, and even further limited to matters of US law. It is not the final arbiter of all truth. Its ruling that atheism is a religion no more proves atheism is a religion than your assertion that atheism is a religion does. If the court rules that the sky is orange and all squares have six sides, it does not make those statements true. Similarly if the court rules that atheism is a religion, that does not mean it actually is one, only that it must be treated as one under US law.
Alter2Ego:
You are very good at dodging yes/no questions asked to you.
Under the case THAT YOU CITED - a belief in Unicorns would constitute a religion.
Do you agree that a belief in Unicorns is a religion?
And I do believe as someone stated earlier that you are trolling us. You can't really believe that "in this case" and under the protection of the First Amendment means that Atheism is a Religion.
But it warms my heart that you must believe marriage between same sex individuals is truly a marriage because the SCOTUS said so.
Alter2Ego:
You are very good at dodging yes/no questions asked to you.
Under the case THAT YOU CITED - a belief in Unicorns would constitute a religion.
Do you agree that a belief in Unicorns is a religion?
And I do believe as someone stated earlier that you are trolling us. You can't really believe that "in this case" and under the protection of the First Amendment means that Atheism is a Religion.
Nailed it !
On the cross :p
W0X0F:
Look at definition (3) in your own response. See that? It's one of the definitions of religion.
Alter2Ego
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
I haven't looked at this thread in over a year (I find religious discussions tedious). But I'm not sure what you're getting at here. It seems that you think you have caught me on the definition that I posted.
But just to clarify, even that third definition does not apply to most atheists I know, i.e. we do NOT consider atheism of supreme importance, any more than our non-belief in Santa Clause and fairies. Non of these non-beliefs guide our life.
Religious people get so triggered by atheists.I think it comes from knowing deep down that their belief in a god is not really defensible. The line I love is when a believer tells me that it takes more faith to be an atheist than to believe in god. They'll say (without a shred of irony or self-realization) "I just don't have enough faith to be an atheist." Stunning.
Patently untrue. I've heard many definitions of morality from well known atheists (e.g. Sam Harris). Your statement is just an example of the smug certitude of believers.
They also can't answer for language, or many things.
"Answer for language"? What does that even mean?
I think if evolution is true... and i'm not saying the Earth is 6000 years old. I'm saying, the Early Church Fathers thought the Earth was old. I tend to lend my mind to a longer period for kinds and everything to play out. We know floods are in every area of recorded history. I think it's bizarre, even language. Like, ask an Atheist to tell you how... and we have no signs of the things that were responsible for getting to "Science Humans"... I think chance is preposterous. I think atheists are just playing to their emotions. They got their lucky nothingness ego to deal with hard times. BTW.. I'm done posting here. LOL alcohol and weed get me banned.
Wow, nice word salad. That first "sentence" (not really a sentence) is...how can I say this nicely...not well thought out. Try to express a cogent thought and perhaps we can discuss it further.
I suggest listening to Jay Dyer on YouTube if you want to see how the Christian worldview destroys atheism in a debate format. Atheism is the easiest worldview to destroy. It's comical how bad their best debaters do against Christians.
That's hilarious.
I haven't looked at this thread in over a year (I find religious discussions tedious). But I'm not sure what you're getting at here. It seems that you think you have caught me on the definition that I posted.
But just to clarify, even that third definition does not apply to most atheists I know, i.e. we do NOT consider atheism of supreme importance, any more than our non-belief in Santa Clause and fairies. Non of these non-beliefs guide our life.
Religious people get so triggered by atheists.I th
W0X0F:
Who do you expect to believe that? The fact that atheists spend more time on the Religion forum than many theists says it it all.
Alter2Ego
________________
"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
W0X0F:
Who do you expect to believe that? The fact that atheists spend more time on the Religion forum than many theists says it it all.
Alter2Ego
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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
Define religion.
"I don't believe that god story is real" ... is
[ ] A religion
[x] Not a religion.
Spoiler
Correctamoondo
"That's the difference. My faith is in forward looking discovery, not in basing our understanding on dogma received from Middle Eastern prophets of thousands of years ago." -- Nicholas Humphrey
Amen.
The brief 5 minute interview here:
