The price of breaking the constitution is too low in western countries
I have been mulling over this topic for a while and i think it's one of the main reasons people on all political sides feel their constitutional rights aren't respected enough even in western countries.
A mechanism should be in place to punish any violator of the constitution extremely harshly.
How? let's see how it should work in practice for me, at the federal level in the USA (it should apply at state level for the state constitution as well, and ofc in other countries as well).
You are a legislator, or member of the executive in an executive function, of law official, or anyone else acting under the power of the law.
Your actions are later confirmed to be a violation of the constitution by a court , with appeal confirming, or by SCOTUS. You didn't act under precedent, nor with legal counsel specifically telling you they thought your actions were constitutional.
Well, at a very minimum you should be barred from holding office (elected or otherwise) for life, and to work for the state in any capacity, always for life. You should be kept away from state power like a child rapist is kept away from children.
And under judgement of the court that finds your actions unconstitutional, depending on the severity of the constitutional breach and statutes written for the purpose, you should potentially go to jail, potentially for a long time, and/or pay damages to the victim(s) of your constitutional violation(s) (from personal assets).
What would that generate as a second order effect? that anyone using state power wouldn't even dream of doing any action that isn't 100% transparently and uncontroversially constitutional.
That any shade of doubt about that, even the slightest, would convince the actor to ask the courts BEFORE enacting his legislation/EO/agency decision (yes rules have to be amended to make it the case that courts can be asked about the constitutionality of a statute/EO and so on BEFORE it is enacted. it is incredible this isn't the case already).
*if legal counsel tells you it was constitutional and it wasn't, you don't pay anything and they lose their license
Results: state power will behave according to the constitution and it's interpretation by the judiciary, everyone wins. Except people who hate the constitution that is.
Another needed change would be to change standings rules: everyone should be able to have standing in contesting the constitutionality of any action by any part of government just by being a citizen of a country.
Trolling is posting with the intention to elicit a negative reaction. Sarcasm is still allowed, friend.
Put you on a plane home, lose all assets in america, and can't ever re-enter under penalty of death. Deterrent enough.
Also, while you rob murder and so on you can easily get killed by police in action, it's not a license to do crimes lol.
Quite insane to prefer spending 40k/year/person
It is idiotic to think that is a deterrent. Basically the same as happens to homegrown criminals, except without the prison time.
If I'm a drug dealer or a forger or a bank robber or whatever, I just go to the US, make my money, stash it abroad or in crypto or in cash under my friend's sofa, and if I get busted they just put me on a plane home and wave bye bye. ****ing genius bro, we should put you in charge of nationwide crime prevention.
It is idiotic to think that is a deterrent. Basically the same as happens to homegrown criminals, except without the prison time.
If I'm a drug dealer or a forger or a bank robber or whatever, I just go to the US, make my money, stash it abroad or in crypto or in cash under my friend's sofa, and if I get busted they just put me on a plane home and wave bye bye. ****ing genius bro, we should put you in charge of the FBI.
Aside from the fact that this requires your home country to allow you to be free (not a given at all), home criminals aren't exiled nor all their assets automatically sequestered if they are guilty of a crime so i don't understand your objection.
If you are a career criminal you are already acting under the assumption that you won't be caught. Prison time isn't deterring you
Summing up a position that wants to set free half of the prison population with "executing and deporting" is trolling.
People are allowed to make fun of your ideas so long as they do not violate the forum guidelines.
Maybe if you don't like people mocking your ideas, come up with better ideas instead of crying to the authorities?
Maybe if you don't like people mocking your ideas, come up with better ideas instead of crying to the authorities?
I was banned when i attempted irony with that poster so i don't see why he should be allowed to warp what i write and make fun of something i didn't write. If the rules apply to me they must apply to others as well.
I would prefer no censorship but if i am censored, people who pick fights with me should be as well.
It's like entrapment if you post something absurd and then complain to the mods when people laugh at your idea. I have been entrapped.
Luciom, if you do not have thick enough skin for potentially negative feedback, then you should not create threads like this.
Toughen up, buttercup. I’m letting you keep this open. 😀
In Germany we dont even have a constitution.
Aside from the fact that this requires your home country to allow you to be free (not a given at all), home criminals aren't exiled nor all their assets automatically sequestered if they are guilty of a crime so i don't understand your objection.
If you are a career criminal you are already acting under the assumption that you won't be caught. Prison time isn't deterring you
You obviously haven't heard much about the draconian civil and criminal forfeiture statutes that are even discussed on this forum occasionally in the context of civil forfeiture. Homegrown criminals have their assets seized all the time if they are even 6 degrees of separation away from a crime (usually drug dealing).
Honestly, it's a remarkably stupid idea. Name one country in the world that deports criminals instead of sentencing them to a term of imprisonment for crimes committed in their jurisdiction.
I don't think that's true given your own ministry of the interior calls the basic laws Germany constitution
I don't think that's true given your own ministry of the interior calls the basic laws Germany constitution
Well yeas and no, Grundgesetzt aka "basic law" serves as consitution but it was created under supervision from Allied powers and was never ratified by the people.
You obviously haven't heard much about the draconian civil and criminal forfeiture statutes that are even discussed on this forum occasionally in the context of civil forfeiture. Homegrown criminals have their assets seized all the time if they are even 6 degrees of separation away from a crime (usually drug dealing).
Honestly, it's a remarkably stupid idea. Name one country in the world that deports criminals instead of sentencing them to a term of imprisonment for crimes committed in their juri
Also, which countries are going to cheerfully accept the zillions of prisoners we're going to be dumping? We just going to bus them all to Mexico and that's going to work out?
Also, which countries are going to cheerfully accept the zillions of prisoners we're going to be dumping? We just going to bus them all to Mexico and that's going to work out?
Well, the prisoners in question are going to get deported at the end of their sentences anyway. Luciom is suggesting deporting them instead of serving any sentence.
Also, which countries are going to cheerfully accept the zillions of prisoners we're going to be dumping? We just going to bus them all to Mexico and that's going to work out?
The countries those people are citizens of, same as when you deport illegal immigrants, something that already happens regularly.
And it's not zillions, it's around 20k in federal prison right now as per link.
The countries those people are citizens of, same as when you deport illegal immigrants, something that already happens regularly.
And it's not zillions, it's around 20k in federal prison right now as per link.
An order of magnitude more than that in state prisons, btw. And yes, they are regularly deported. I was one of them. Would have been lovely if I could just have got on a plane instead of having to sit in jail for a year first.
Well, the prisoners in question are going to get deported at the end of their sentences anyway. Luciom is suggesting deporting them instead of serving any sentence.
Yes, but the sentence stays for their home country, if they decide to give it value (their choice, i could care less).
In many/most cases their home country won't treat them lightly.
Yes, but the sentence stays for their home country, if they decide to give it value (their choice, i could care less).
In many/most cases their home country won't treat them lightly.
The US fights other countries for extradition of drug kingpins like Escobar and El Chapo just so they can lock them up. Under your system, not only would they not be trying to extradite them, but if they managed to catch them on US soil, they'd try them, convict them, then send them back to Colombia or Mexico, right?
The countries those people are citizens of, same as when you deport illegal immigrants, something that already happens regularly.
And it's not zillions, it's around 20k in federal prison right now as per link.
Pretty sure most people in US prisons are US citizens? Do they get summary executions?
Also, I assume we're going to have to get rid of pesky things like appeals and legal review of all these death sentences. We talking like summary executions for these guys?
